God damn Blake Griffin!!!

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Impressive!!!

Camby doing work 2!!

Nick C wrote:

King wrote:

CAguyofftoUNC wrote:

King wrote:

CAguyofftoUNC wrote:

King wrote:

CAguyofftoUNC wrote:

In the 70's, Kareem played directly against Wilt, Willis Reed, Dave Cowens, Nate Thurmond, Wes Unseld, Bob Lanier, and Elvin Hayes. In fact, he played against all of them in '72, when he averaged 35 points, 17 rebounds and 5 assists on 57.4 FG%. No center has averaged better since. Also, he was going up against a league with a much better and more athletic array of power forwards than Wilt's era had, like Dave DeBusschere, Jerry Lucas, Spencer Haywood, Happy Hairston, etc. In the 80's, he contended with Parish, McHale, Hakeem, Moses Malone, Ewing, etc.

Wilt played against Russell and...Walt Bellamy? Johnny Kerr?

Yeah...I have no idea why you consider the 70's and 80's a weak era for centers.

None of those Centers would average those statistics today, mate
Shaq in the 70s/80s would be the GOAT

Wow. What a comeback.

During the 70s defenses weren't present, while in the 80s they were developing.
The 90s had the best defense in NBA history at the Center position.

Wow. If you want to believe that, go right ahead.

Hakeem Olajuwon
Shaquille O'neal
Dikembe Mutombo
Horace Grant
Alonzo Mourning

Some of the best defensive Centers ever, and are in what era? 90s!

LMAO!

When did Shaq become a defensive center and why the hell is Horace Grant a center?

Shaq his rookie season averaged 3.5 blocks per game . He can play Centers one on one without a double-team.

Horace Grant was a Forward-Center, and he played pretty good defense.

King wrote:

Nick C wrote:

King wrote:

CAguyofftoUNC wrote:

King wrote:

CAguyofftoUNC wrote:

King wrote:

CAguyofftoUNC wrote:

In the 70's, Kareem played directly against Wilt, Willis Reed, Dave Cowens, Nate Thurmond, Wes Unseld, Bob Lanier, and Elvin Hayes. In fact, he played against all of them in '72, when he averaged 35 points, 17 rebounds and 5 assists on 57.4 FG%. No center has averaged better since. Also, he was going up against a league with a much better and more athletic array of power forwards than Wilt's era had, like Dave DeBusschere, Jerry Lucas, Spencer Haywood, Happy Hairston, etc. In the 80's, he contended with Parish, McHale, Hakeem, Moses Malone, Ewing, etc.

Wilt played against Russell and...Walt Bellamy? Johnny Kerr?

Yeah...I have no idea why you consider the 70's and 80's a weak era for centers.

None of those Centers would average those statistics today, mate
Shaq in the 70s/80s would be the GOAT

Wow. What a comeback.

During the 70s defenses weren't present, while in the 80s they were developing.
The 90s had the best defense in NBA history at the Center position.

Wow. If you want to believe that, go right ahead.

Hakeem Olajuwon
Shaquille O'neal
Dikembe Mutombo
Horace Grant
Alonzo Mourning

Some of the best defensive Centers ever, and are in what era? 90s!

LMAO!

When did Shaq become a defensive center and why the hell is Horace Grant a center?

Shaq his rookie season averaged 3.5 blocks per game . He can play Centers one on one without a double-team.

Horace Grant was a Forward-Center, and he played pretty good defense.

Shaq didn't play the pick and roll... didn't play help defense... didn't step out to defend jump shooting center like Rik Smits even if that was their only realiable weapon against him. Shaq use to get torched by David Robinson (who was a much better defender than Shaq and who you didn't include in your list), Hakeem, Ewing on the regular... and Horace Grant barely played center in his Bulls years. He played center when Shaq left Orlando for L.A. and then in Seattle, because by default he was the best post defender and even then his best years were behind him on defense.

Now,you really you lost everything with this

"Shaq is arguably the best man to man defender in the NBA History"

I love Shaq,he's my all time fave player.He wasn't a strong defensive center,sure he was good in that aspect but not as good as his competition during the 90's.All of the guys scored well on him,he didn't really stop anyone...

I will give shaq some defensive credit because he never needed a double team and could hold his own against most guys and when someone tried to drive directly at him he made the shot impossible. but c'mon,this guy has never made an all defense 1st team,never rotates even to this day,refuses to step out and contest and is m/d a lazy defender..lazy player too tbh

King wrote:

Gimme dat money! wrote:

I will give shaq some defensive credit because he never needed a double team and could hold his own against most guys and when someone tried to drive directly at him he made the shot impossible. but c'mon,this guy has never made an all defense 1st team,never rotates even to this day,refuses to step out and contest and is m/d a lazy defender..lazy player too tbh

I agree, he is a lazy defender, but if he wasn't lazy, how many guys would score on him? None.

LMFAO! Sure.

King wrote:

Gimme dat money! wrote:

I will give shaq some defensive credit because he never needed a double team and could hold his own against most guys and when someone tried to drive directly at him he made the shot impossible. but c'mon,this guy has never made an all defense 1st team,never rotates even to this day,refuses to step out and contest and is m/d a lazy defender..lazy player too tbh

I agree, he is a lazy defender, but if he wasn't lazy, how many guys would score on him? None.

You're really undermining your entire argument when you say Shaq is somehow both a lazy defender and the best man-to-man defender in history.

King wrote:

CAguyofftoUNC wrote:

King wrote:

Gimme dat money! wrote:

I will give shaq some defensive credit because he never needed a double team and could hold his own against most guys and when someone tried to drive directly at him he made the shot impossible. but c'mon,this guy has never made an all defense 1st team,never rotates even to this day,refuses to step out and contest and is m/d a lazy defender..lazy player too tbh

I agree, he is a lazy defender, but if he wasn't lazy, how many guys would score on him? None.

You're really undermining your entire argument when you say Shaq is somehow both a lazy defender and the best man-to-man defender in history.

That right there shows how he could have become the GOAT if he had a great work ethic. Also, he's the best man-to-man defender in NBA history at his position, because he never needed a double team.

Why the hell are you trying to demonstrate Shaq's greatness by talking about something he's never had (a good work ethic)? That's like me saying Charles Barkley would have been the GOAT PF if he had stayed in shape. Nice to imagine, utterly meaningless in reality. And nice little switch from "best man-to-man defender in NBA history" to "best man-to-man defender in NBA history at his position." You're on the right track, but still wrong. No idea why you'd pick Shaq's man-to-man D over Hakeem or Robinson (hell, if we're talking all-time, maybe not even over Russell).

King wrote:

CAguyofftoUNC wrote:

King wrote:

CAguyofftoUNC wrote:

King wrote:

Gimme dat money! wrote:

I will give shaq some defensive credit because he never needed a double team and could hold his own against most guys and when someone tried to drive directly at him he made the shot impossible. but c'mon,this guy has never made an all defense 1st team,never rotates even to this day,refuses to step out and contest and is m/d a lazy defender..lazy player too tbh

I agree, he is a lazy defender, but if he wasn't lazy, how many guys would score on him? None.

You're really undermining your entire argument when you say Shaq is somehow both a lazy defender and the best man-to-man defender in history.

That right there shows how he could have become the GOAT if he had a great work ethic. Also, he's the best man-to-man defender in NBA history at his position, because he never needed a double team.

Why the hell are you trying to demonstrate Shaq's greatness by talking about something he's never had (a good work ethic)? That's like me saying Charles Barkley would have been the GOAT PF if he had stayed in shape. Nice to imagine, utterly meaningless in reality. And nice little switch from "best man-to-man defender in NBA history" to "best man-to-man defender in NBA history at his position." You're on the right track, but still wrong. No idea why you'd pick Shaq's man-to-man D over Hakeem or Robinson (hell, if we're talking all-time, maybe not even over Russell).

You're retarded

Bill Russell = Overrated
Hakeem Olajuwon = Great, but anyone would take Shaq over him.
David Robinson = Hakeem's personal bitch.

I'd actually call Shaq Hakeem's bitch, because Hakeem eviscerated Shaq in the 1995 Finals to repeat as a champion. Also don't know what Robinson being Hakeem's bitch has to do with Shaq. And with all your talk of Shaq being the greatest, interesting how he didn't win his first championship until 2000, around when the center position started to weaken so dramatically. Funny how you bash Kareem and Russell for playing in weak eras when Shaq only found success in possibly the weakest decade of all for true centers.

Also, get some new insults. Calling everyone here retarded is getting old.

Kendrick Perkins doesn't need double teams.
Clearly he is the best defender in NBA history.

[quote="CAguyofftoUNC"]

King wrote:

CAguyofftoUNC wrote:

King wrote:

CAguyofftoUNC wrote:

King wrote:

Gimme dat money! wrote:

I will give shaq some defensive credit because he never needed a double team and could hold his own against most guys and when someone tried to drive directly at him he made the shot impossible. but c'mon,this guy has never made an all defense 1st team,never rotates even to this day,refuses to step out and contest and is m/d a lazy defender..lazy player too tbh

I agree, he is a lazy defender, but if he wasn't lazy, how many guys would score on him? None.

You're really undermining your entire argument when you say Shaq is somehow both a lazy defender and the best man-to-man defender in history.

That right there shows how he could have become the GOAT if he had a great work ethic. Also, he's the best man-to-man defender in NBA history at his position, because he never needed a double team.

Why the hell are you trying to demonstrate Shaq's greatness by talking about something he's never had (a good work ethic)? That's like me saying Charles Barkley would have been the GOAT PF if he had stayed in shape. Nice to imagine, utterly meaningless in reality. And nice little switch from "best man-to-man defender in NBA history" to "best man-to-man defender in NBA history at his position." You're on the right track, but still wrong. No idea why you'd pick Shaq's man-to-man D over Hakeem or Robinson (hell, if we're talking all-time, maybe not even over Russell).

You're retarded

Bill Russell = Overrated
Hakeem Olajuwon = Great, but anyone would take Shaq over him.
David Robinson = Hakeem's personal bitch.

I'd actually call Shaq Hakeem's bitch, because Hakeem eviscerated Shaq in the 1995 Finals to repeat as a champion. Also don't know what Robinson being Hakeem's bitch has to do with Shaq. And with all your talk of Shaq being the greatest, interesting how he didn't win his first championship until 2000, around when the center position started to weaken so dramatically. Funny how you bash Kareem and Russell for playing in weak eras when Shaq only found success in possibly the weakest decade of all for true centers.

Also, get some new insults. Calling everyone here retarded is getting old.

*Hakeem Olajuwon had a better supporting cast in '95
*Defensive Centers were strong in 2000 too (Mourning, Wallace). Shaq literally dominated.
*Never said Shaq was the greatest, don't put words in my mouth fool. But, he's one of the greatest to play the game at the Center position.

Shaq in the 90s averaged better stats than in the 2000s all-around.

King wrote:

Magic wrote:

Now,you really you lost everything with this

"Shaq is arguably the best man to man defender in the NBA History"

I love Shaq,he's my all time fave player.He wasn't a strong defensive center,sure he was good in that aspect but not as good as his competition during the 90's.All of the guys scored well on him,he didn't really stop anyone...

Shaq is the best man-man defender, can't even deny that retard!

"Skinny" Shaq in the Magic played similar to Michael Jordan his rookie season; Amazing!

No retard,Shaq's not even close to being the best in any category on defense...and don't give me those shits.

Ever heard of Russell,Olajuwon,Rodman,Dumars?

CAguyofftoUNC wrote:

King wrote:

CAguyofftoUNC wrote:

King wrote:

CAguyofftoUNC wrote:

King wrote:

Gimme dat money! wrote:

I will give shaq some defensive credit because he never needed a double team and could hold his own against most guys and when someone tried to drive directly at him he made the shot impossible. but c'mon,this guy has never made an all defense 1st team,never rotates even to this day,refuses to step out and contest and is m/d a lazy defender..lazy player too tbh

I agree, he is a lazy defender, but if he wasn't lazy, how many guys would score on him? None.

You're really undermining your entire argument when you say Shaq is somehow both a lazy defender and the best man-to-man defender in history.

That right there shows how he could have become the GOAT if he had a great work ethic. Also, he's the best man-to-man defender in NBA history at his position, because he never needed a double team.

Why the hell are you trying to demonstrate Shaq's greatness by talking about something he's never had (a good work ethic)? That's like me saying Charles Barkley would have been the GOAT PF if he had stayed in shape. Nice to imagine, utterly meaningless in reality. And nice little switch from "best man-to-man defender in NBA history" to "best man-to-man defender in NBA history at his position." You're on the right track, but still wrong. No idea why you'd pick Shaq's man-to-man D over Hakeem or Robinson (hell, if we're talking all-time, maybe not even over Russell).

You're retarded

Bill Russell = Overrated
Hakeem Olajuwon = Great, but anyone would take Shaq over him.
David Robinson = Hakeem's personal bitch.

I'd actually call Shaq Hakeem's bitch, because Hakeem eviscerated Shaq in the 1995 Finals to repeat as a champion. Also don't know what Robinson being Hakeem's bitch has to do with Shaq. And with all your talk of Shaq being the greatest, interesting how he didn't win his first championship until 2000, around when the center position started to weaken so dramatically. Funny how you bash Kareem and Russell for playing in weak eras when Shaq only found success in possibly the weakest decade of all for true centers.

Also, get some new insults. Calling everyone here retarded is getting old.

I wouldn't call Shaq,Hakeem's bitch after all,he wasn't just in his 3rd season back then and had fantastic stats against a world class defender that Hakeem was,but hey we all have different thoughts.

King wrote:

Gimme dat money! wrote:

I will give shaq some defensive credit because he never needed a double team and could hold his own against most guys and when someone tried to drive directly at him he made the shot impossible. but c'mon,this guy has never made an all defense 1st team,never rotates even to this day,refuses to step out and contest and is m/d a lazy defender..lazy player too tbh

I agree, he is a lazy defender, but if he wasn't lazy, how many guys would score on him? None.

if...hahaha just like IF blake griffin wasnt athletic

King wrote:

CAguyofftoUNC wrote:

King wrote:

CAguyofftoUNC wrote:

King wrote:

Gimme dat money! wrote:

I will give shaq some defensive credit because he never needed a double team and could hold his own against most guys and when someone tried to drive directly at him he made the shot impossible. but c'mon,this guy has never made an all defense 1st team,never rotates even to this day,refuses to step out and contest and is m/d a lazy defender..lazy player too tbh

I agree, he is a lazy defender, but if he wasn't lazy, how many guys would score on him? None.

You're really undermining your entire argument when you say Shaq is somehow both a lazy defender and the best man-to-man defender in history.

That right there shows how he could have become the GOAT if he had a great work ethic. Also, he's the best man-to-man defender in NBA history at his position, because he never needed a double team.

Why the hell are you trying to demonstrate Shaq's greatness by talking about something he's never had (a good work ethic)? That's like me saying Charles Barkley would have been the GOAT PF if he had stayed in shape. Nice to imagine, utterly meaningless in reality. And nice little switch from "best man-to-man defender in NBA history" to "best man-to-man defender in NBA history at his position." You're on the right track, but still wrong. No idea why you'd pick Shaq's man-to-man D over Hakeem or Robinson (hell, if we're talking all-time, maybe not even over Russell).

You're retarded

Bill Russell = Overrated
Hakeem Olajuwon = Great, but anyone would take Shaq over him.
David Robinson = Hakeem's personal bitch.

Russell overrated?Hell no

Anyone would take Shaq over Hakeem?Please,that's silly.We all have our opinions and most of here,agree that Hakeem is better than Shaq and is arguably,the best center ever.What you can do,is at least respect that

David Robinson Hakeem's bitch?No..just stop.It doesn't mean that if Hakeem totally owned him in the playoffs series in that game when Robinson was awarded with the MVP and did the Dream Shake,means that The Admiral couldn't ball

The dude was terrific on both ends,and was one of the couple of guys who succeed to slow Shaquille down as well.I could go on but no need,you can take look at him and try to understand his greatness.And btw,this is a proof that he wasn't Hakeem's bitch

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=olajuha01&p2=robinda01

See,even though Hakeem was better than Robinson,still he had his own moments against the Dream too

shaq better than hakeem?! i shit myself..literally..thank god im sitting on the toilet!

Gimme dat money! wrote:

shaq better than hakeem?! i shit myself..literally..thank god im sitting on the toilet!

Well,he said that.

While i think it can go either way,still most people chose Hakeem

King wrote:

Most Centers today suck -_-

Shaq (prime) would eat him raw.

Most centers in the early 2000s (when Shaq made a name for his absolute dominance) sucked too.