Dirk Nowitzki is the 2nd best player in the NBA and here are the reasons...

First topic message reminder :

Career Playoffs:

Dirk Nowitzki - 25.5 PPG, 11 RPG, 2.6 APG, 45.4 FG%, 88 FT%, 2.1 TO
Kobe Bryant - 25 PPG, 5 RPG, 4.7 APG, 44.7 FG%, 81 FT%, 2.9 TO


This season Playoffs:

28 PPG, 8.8 RPG, 3 APG, 48.1 FG%, 97.1 FT%, 1.5 TO



I am sick and tired of people placing Dirk beneath players like Wade or Melo just because they are highlight reels waiting to happen because of athleticism when they both lack Dirk's skills and greatness.


Look at all the superstars that this league has to offer:


Now look at them that were champions:

Tim Duncan - I love Tim Duncan he's the man, but he has had Manu and Tony to take a lot of the pressure off of him in big pressure situations. TD has always delivered, but he has had help.

Kobe Bryant - Had Shaq putting up 29 PPG, 13.7 RPG, 2.5 BPG, MVP in all 3 Championships together


Dwyane Wade - Had Shaquille putting up 20 PPG, 10 RPG, 2 BPG. Not to mention that the 2006 NBA Finals was the most controversially called Finals I've ever seen in MIA's favor. But, do you realize that MIA's biggest advantages were Dallas's disadvantage. Marquis Daniels (SG) could not match up to Wade and Dampier (C) is nothing compared to Shaq. No one stopped Dirk in that Finals though and since then Wade has been trucked by Dirk and Dallas. Miami has not won since then. Back to the Finals it's amazing Dallas took them to 6 with all that and the refs bogus calls.


Do you realize that Brendan Haywood right now is probably the greatest C the Mavs had since Dirk's been here? That's pretty bad, but maybe it could have been a little better having him rather than Dampier in the 06 Finals. Heck Haywood has a chance to go down as the greatest C in Mavs history.


Also please tell me the reliable players Dallas has had to be paired up with Dirk? I don't mean the ones who live off of wide open jump shots from Dirk screens and double teams no, I'm talking about the ones who can drive the ball and create their own shot like Tony Parker or Manu Ginobili. I can think of only Steve Nash (4 healthy seasons) and Josh Howard(3 almost healthy seasons)they never got to play together since Nash was traded. Again NO shooting guard or center. Now, name all the teams who have won a championship with no true shooting guard or center that averages nowhere near a double double. Then I want you to tell me who else has lead a team mostly filled with underachievers to the finals and to the playoffs 10 out of 11 (all 50+ wins)seasons with less than what Dirk has had to work with?


DO YOU KNOW THAT DIRK NOWITKI IS 1 OF ONLY 5 Players to average 20/10 in his playoff career. The other 4 are: Hakeem Olajuwon, Shaquille O'Neal, Elgin Baylor, and Bob Pettit {pretty good company to be in no?}


Dirk has also only missed 29 games in 11 seasons:

LeBron has missed 22 games in 7 seasons
Kobe has missed 76 games in 11 of his 14 seasons
Dwyane Wade has missed 102 games in 7 seasons
Carmelo Anthony has missed 60 games in 7 seasons


People say Dirk is not a great defender, but Dirk does not turn the ball over as the franchise player. That is just as important as playing defense to have from your franchise player because it saves your team of the maximum times the opposing team can score on you.

LeBron James - 219 TO'S
Kevin Durant - 217 TO's
Dirk Nowitzki -109 TO's

*Meaning Dirk has saved his team from giving up a maximum of 324 points off TO's in just 60 games compared to James and Durant.


People question his clutchness when Dirk has made 4 gamewinners this season alone. Scored 53 points in the WCF to put his team over the Suns and averaged 38 PPG last season in the series against Denver. And was very clutch against SA in 2007.

Not to mention Dirk Nowitzki has made the most game winners to put his team ahead for good in the final 2 seconds more than any other NBA player since 2005.


Not to mention that Dirk is second in 4th Quarter points in the NBA this season after LeBron James:

James - 7.5 Pts (.463%)
Dirk - 7.2 Pts (.447%) (144-150 FT's) That is (96%)
Anthony - 6.6 Pts
Roy - 6.7 Pts
Landry - 6.4 Pts
Terry - 6.1 Pts (gets most of his points when teams overplay Dirk)
Granger - 5.7 Pts


NOBODY in the NBA can guard Dirk one-on-one, which is why he gets double and triple-teamed in the playoffs. People say Dirk doesn't play defense, yet he has averaged one steal and one block per game over his twelve year career. Dirk is the only player in NBA history to get 150 blocks AND 150 three-pointers in a season, and the only player besides Larry Bird to shoot 50 percent from the field, 40 percent from three, and 90 percent from the line, all while averaging over 24 points per game.

TonyEM: 4eva Voice of NY wrote:

Have you seen the Knicks in the later part of the 90's we were indeed defensive juggernauts more so than what Orlando is now don't kid yourself. Ewing is right there in the most skilled C's of all-time. I love DH12 and all, but I just don't se him being better than Ewing tbh

no you don't, you rip on him as being overrated in just about everything. the knicks weren't any better defensively as a team than the magic are now. statistically, the magic rank easily in the top 3 of all defensive teams. they actually beat charlotte in 4 games by outperforming them ON DEFENSE

LMFAO at Dwight Howard is gentle.
He has one of the biggest tempers in the NBA, but also one of the biggest hearts.

oh, and btw, wheres you answer to the dwight-dirk stuff? all you did was bring your boy ewing into the conversation, and it still failed. :/

both 2nd seeds, dwight just sweeped the bobcats, while dirk just got beat in 6 games to a 7th seed. yeah, amazing, isn't it.

Again that was when Ewing was 24 who cares? We had freaking Don Nelson and Rick Pitino as our Head Coaches. Look at Ewing with Riley and JVG enough said that was juggernaut. I would love to see an in his prime DH12 guard an in his prime Patrick Ewing. First off Ewing has a couple of inches over Dwight. And would have been way too elusive for him to front and or body especially when Ewing had the ability to drain step backs from anywhere on the court like it was nothing.

The Spurs are not a 7th seed and I wanted SA to win I like them much better than Dallas. Dirk played a great game, but SA is my 2nd favorite team along with Utah for a reason

Only Dwight has won 2 straight DPOY's and is most likely to win AT LEAST 3 more in the next 6 years. Where is all of Ewing's MVPs and shit? He made it to the All-NBA first team ONCE in his career. Howard already has 2.

TonyEM: 4eva Voice of NY wrote:

Again that was when Ewing was 24 who cares? We had freaking Don Nelson and Rick Pitino as our Head Coaches. Look at Ewing with Riley and JVG enough said that was juggernaut. I would love to see an in his prime DH12 guard an in his prime Patrick Ewing. First off Ewing has a couple of inches over Dwight. And would have been way too elusive for him to front and or body especially when Ewing had the ability to drain step backs from anywhere on the court like it was nothing.

The Spurs are not a 7th seed and I wanted SA to win I like them much better than Dallas. Dirk played a great game, but SA is my 2nd favorite team along with Utah for a reason

So because you're a Spurs fan, that doesn't matter? Wow, great excuse.

I bet you woulda never went on this rant if you had waited till today.

KB24 wrote:

I bet you woulda never went on this rant if you had waited till today.

Exactly. All this Dirk is GOD in play-offs and shit. Im pretty sure you're supposed to do whatever it is to make your team better, and worry about yourself when you're by yourself.

Ewing in his rookie season averaged 20/9/2/2 BPG that is beastly.
Ewing could run the floor and take it coast to coast

Ewing should have been DPOY but he played in an era where a deserving guy maybe you heard of him called MJ (who was pretty good) won the DPOY. And I'm not mad at the other selections in the 90's: Rodman (2x), Olajuwon (2x), Robinson(1x - I see a flaw here great defender but Ewing should have won some), Payton (1x greatest Defensive PG ever), Mutombo (3x great defender but Ewing could have won it in these years as well), and Zo (2x Knicks owned MIA and Ewing owned Zo this was an outrage).

Again as for being on 1st NBA only once in his career look at the heavy competiton he had to face in the 90's just to be named on that list.

Wanna know about Ewing?

Ewing would never have been flustered by the likes of Pau Gasol and a swarming Lakers d as much as DH12 was in the NBA Finals. Given Ewing's full arsenal on offense and the fact that he always had a strong desire to give it his all he wouldn't have been put into that situation or at least not that badly. Again Ewing has more heart than DH12 and that's FACT

Patrick Ewing is 17th all-time in total points in NBA history. Could have been even higher if it wasn't for the reoccuring achilles injuries and bad knee injuries. But, he was a Warrior like that of his nickname.

In 1993 he led the NBA with 789 defensive rebounds. He was top ten in field goal percentage 8 times, top ten in rebounds per game as well as total rebounds 8 times, top ten in points, as well as points per game 8 times, and top ten in blocks per game for 13 years.

TonyEM: 4eva Voice of NY wrote:

Wanna know about Ewing?

Ewing would never have been flustered by the likes of Pau Gasol and a swarming Lakers d as much as DH12 was in the NBA Finals. Given Ewing's full arsenal on offense and the fact that he always had a strong desire to give it his all he wouldn't have been put into that situation or at least not that badly. Again Ewing has more heart than DH12 and that's FACT

this is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO biased and such bullshit evidence. im not saying dwight is better than ewing, but the way you go about trying to prove he isn't just doesn't make any sense. dwight has never had any character issues, works hard game in and game out, and ur questioning his heart? serious? gtfo tony

Pretty much anyone would have been "flustered" if 3 big men with 7'+ wingspans were all up on your jock for a whole series. He still killed records.

That's only one of the many reasons why ATHLETICISM is important. As strong as he is, it's pretty hard for Dwight to be injured. Really hard.

Yes but Dwight is still the same age some ROOKIES and he's done all that but better, outside of the points.

ess-ohh-ell-ohh. wrote:

KB24 wrote:

I bet you woulda never went on this rant if you had waited till today.

Exactly. All this Dirk is GOD in play-offs and shit. Im pretty sure you're supposed to do whatever it is to make your team better, and worry about yourself when you're by yourself.

Dallas easily had the deepest team in the West. Dirk is the "Supposed best player in the West".
Results?. Getting beat by the NBA's OLDEST team in 6 in the FIRST ROUND.

Lol, what happened to ppl on here saying Dallas would make it to the Finals?. G....T.......F......O

Dirk and his Stats are only good for the reg season, so he can go fishing and think about all those 50 win seasons and early round exits.

Oh, and to backup what SK said:

Orlando Magic opponents points per game through Howard's 7 year career: 97.3

New York Knicks opponents points per game through Ewing's 15 year career with Knicks: 99.0*

*This number is deflated because of Ewing's last two years in NY, where he was a non factor, had his team's OPP PPG average 89.1 and 85.4 respectively.

Dub C wrote:

TonyEM: 4eva Voice of NY wrote:

Wanna know about Ewing?

Ewing would never have been flustered by the likes of Pau Gasol and a swarming Lakers d as much as DH12 was in the NBA Finals. Given Ewing's full arsenal on offense and the fact that he always had a strong desire to give it his all he wouldn't have been put into that situation or at least not that badly. Again Ewing has more heart than DH12 and that's FACT

this is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO biased and such bullshit evidence. im not saying dwight is better than ewing, but the way you go about trying to prove he isn't just doesn't make any sense. dwight has never had any character issues, works hard game in and game out, and ur questioning his heart? serious? gtfo tony

having heart: scoring 40, getting 14 boards, and dishing 4 assists to finally oust the NBA MVP, with one of the greatest single player series ever, and the #1 team defensively and one of the best offensively, altogether the best team in the nba.

having heart: building, lifting, working, as hard as dwight. look at his god damn body!

I'm not questioning his heart but he is way too docile at times for my taste. I'm just saying that Ewing is 1 of if not the greatest competitor this game has ever seen he put it all out there on the floor. This man especially in the later part of his career would play with bruised ribs and a achilles injury that you could tell was irking him and he was in extreme pain and yet he still played all the way through that like a true Warrior and beasted on Alonzo Mourning and the Heat all the same. Then comes in his banged up knees he is synonomous with having tape loads and tape loads all around his knees and he would have bags of ice all over his knees while resting and he still put in the work and floor burn and was still a great player. Hakeem Olajuwon towards the end of his career through injuries was complete shit. Ewing towards the end of his career with injuries upon injuries still was a 15-16 PPG guy.

I'm not biased at all and I don't hate DH12 but I do not see him close to the competitor Ewing was nor the player for that matter. And I like a lot of people would be right there saying that Hakeem Olajuwon is the better player when compared to Ewing. He proved that in the Clash of Titans back in 93'-94'. But, one thing is for certain I do not for one second or moment ever think that I would want Hakeem over Ewing. After the 15 seasons of work and complete beastliness NY gave to NY I would have rather come up a little short in winning titles than to win titles with Hakeem if he ever was on the Knicks.

TONY. You'd take Ewing over Hakeem and a 24 year old Dwight. You'd take Dirk over Carmelo Anthony, Dwyane Wade, Kobe Bryant, Chris Paul, and Dwight Howard. You have no statistical evidence whatsoever. Seriously, if you're going to make biased arguments, at least have FACTS to back them up.

i got homework. i got school. i got tests. :/

peace out

edit: i might be back when im done, but i got a hell of a lot.

Don't leave us SK!!!
: ( lol

I said Hakeem Olajwuon is better than Ewing didn't I? That should be enough. Nevertheless, Ewing was a champion of champions even though he never got a title. He is the greatest of all the NBA players to never win a ring in my book. And like I said before towards the end of his career injury upon injury he was better than Hakeem Olajuwon towards the end of his career with lesser injuries. I'd take a in his prime Ewing over an in his prime DH12 I already gave my backup reasons why. And it's called loyalty even if I never saw Ewing win his ring and saw Hakeem {who I not being biased whatsoever have always admitted was a better player than Ewing} win 2. Like I said I would rather come close to winning and lose then have Hakeem in NY instead of Ewing winning 2 titles. I could care less about not winning I still respect Ewing more and admire him more than Hakeem, who is the better player.

[quote=Tony EM: 4eva voice of NY] But, one thing is for certain I do not for one second or moment ever think that I would want Hakeem over Ewing.[/quote]

You said Hakeem was better, but you wouldn't take him over Ewing.

LOL, you don't care about "not winning"? Well that's a great way to start a team. Let's just organize a team with the most talented players IMO and not give a shit about winning. Sounds good.

It's the principle of the thing Ewing is the Knicks. He is by far the greatest player in Knicks history {not even close} and we've had our fair share of HOF'ers. His personality epitomized the city as well better than Hakeem's personality. I look at the faithful service of 15 years that he put he blood, sweat, and tears to giving this city a team that they can cheer for and have a cult following of a tough rough and ready team. It was a culture back then. Ewing and the Knicks go hand in hand. I find that more important than Hakeem beating out Ewing and Shaq in the Finals. It's not all about rings and I'm loyal to Ewing as my favorite player of all-time. How about the way that miserable tart in Scott Layden worst GM in NY history that started all of this mess running Ewing out of town like he meant nothing tearing the hearts of Knicks faithful everywhere? And Ewing understood the business aspect of all this and still considers himself a New Yorker and Knick nonetheless like nothing has changed. That's not only class but it shows character. Ewing was nicknamed the Warrior for a reason and I prefer him as a player over Hakeem even though Hakeem proved to be the better player in their careers. And again even through all the injuries in the final stages of their careers the more banged up Ewing was better than Hakeem Olajuwon in the closing stages of their careers. Olajuwon lost a lot of what made him Olajuwon. I'm also 100% positive that if Ewing was in today's NBA in the Eastern Conference away from people like MJ he would have a whole slew of rings.

When MJ decided to retire for two years, it wasn't Ewing; it wasn't Stockton; it wasn't Malone; it wasn't Drexler, Wilkins, O'Neal, Mourning, Miller, Mutumbo, Robinson, who took the league by force. It was The Dream, plain and simple.

I understand that you like Ewing more than Hakeem, and also think that Hakeem is better than Ewing. But rather having Ewing on your team is straight up stupid.

I like Russell Westbrook more than I do Deron Williams, but I'd rather have Williams on my team. I like Mickael Pietrus more than I do Wade, but I'd rather have Wade. And so on.

I'd rather have a Williams/Wade/Durant/James/Howard team than a Westbrook/Pietrus/Smith/Garnett/Howard team.

It's not stupid if you would understand that back then the Knicks were not just a team it was a culture and the faithful had a cult following with Ewing and took to him quick not only because he was the greatest Knick of all-time and the franchise player in those years, but because his personality fit in with NYC. He was NY. NY was Ewing. You could sense it in not only MSG but in the streets and basketball courts of the entire city heck the entire Tristate area really.

Ewing and Hakeem were both great players with a lot of similarities/differences in their games, but personality wise they were totally different. Again Ewing was NYC.

TonyEM: 4eva Voice of NY wrote:

His personality epitomized the city as well better than Hakeem's personality.

he never slept? he ate lots of big slices of pizza?

That's CHI the big slices of pizza, deep dish I believe.