Dirk Nowitzki is the 2nd best player in the NBA and here are the reasons...

First topic message reminder :

Career Playoffs:

Dirk Nowitzki - 25.5 PPG, 11 RPG, 2.6 APG, 45.4 FG%, 88 FT%, 2.1 TO
Kobe Bryant - 25 PPG, 5 RPG, 4.7 APG, 44.7 FG%, 81 FT%, 2.9 TO


This season Playoffs:

28 PPG, 8.8 RPG, 3 APG, 48.1 FG%, 97.1 FT%, 1.5 TO



I am sick and tired of people placing Dirk beneath players like Wade or Melo just because they are highlight reels waiting to happen because of athleticism when they both lack Dirk's skills and greatness.


Look at all the superstars that this league has to offer:


Now look at them that were champions:

Tim Duncan - I love Tim Duncan he's the man, but he has had Manu and Tony to take a lot of the pressure off of him in big pressure situations. TD has always delivered, but he has had help.

Kobe Bryant - Had Shaq putting up 29 PPG, 13.7 RPG, 2.5 BPG, MVP in all 3 Championships together


Dwyane Wade - Had Shaquille putting up 20 PPG, 10 RPG, 2 BPG. Not to mention that the 2006 NBA Finals was the most controversially called Finals I've ever seen in MIA's favor. But, do you realize that MIA's biggest advantages were Dallas's disadvantage. Marquis Daniels (SG) could not match up to Wade and Dampier (C) is nothing compared to Shaq. No one stopped Dirk in that Finals though and since then Wade has been trucked by Dirk and Dallas. Miami has not won since then. Back to the Finals it's amazing Dallas took them to 6 with all that and the refs bogus calls.


Do you realize that Brendan Haywood right now is probably the greatest C the Mavs had since Dirk's been here? That's pretty bad, but maybe it could have been a little better having him rather than Dampier in the 06 Finals. Heck Haywood has a chance to go down as the greatest C in Mavs history.


Also please tell me the reliable players Dallas has had to be paired up with Dirk? I don't mean the ones who live off of wide open jump shots from Dirk screens and double teams no, I'm talking about the ones who can drive the ball and create their own shot like Tony Parker or Manu Ginobili. I can think of only Steve Nash (4 healthy seasons) and Josh Howard(3 almost healthy seasons)they never got to play together since Nash was traded. Again NO shooting guard or center. Now, name all the teams who have won a championship with no true shooting guard or center that averages nowhere near a double double. Then I want you to tell me who else has lead a team mostly filled with underachievers to the finals and to the playoffs 10 out of 11 (all 50+ wins)seasons with less than what Dirk has had to work with?


DO YOU KNOW THAT DIRK NOWITKI IS 1 OF ONLY 5 Players to average 20/10 in his playoff career. The other 4 are: Hakeem Olajuwon, Shaquille O'Neal, Elgin Baylor, and Bob Pettit {pretty good company to be in no?}


Dirk has also only missed 29 games in 11 seasons:

LeBron has missed 22 games in 7 seasons
Kobe has missed 76 games in 11 of his 14 seasons
Dwyane Wade has missed 102 games in 7 seasons
Carmelo Anthony has missed 60 games in 7 seasons


People say Dirk is not a great defender, but Dirk does not turn the ball over as the franchise player. That is just as important as playing defense to have from your franchise player because it saves your team of the maximum times the opposing team can score on you.

LeBron James - 219 TO'S
Kevin Durant - 217 TO's
Dirk Nowitzki -109 TO's

*Meaning Dirk has saved his team from giving up a maximum of 324 points off TO's in just 60 games compared to James and Durant.


People question his clutchness when Dirk has made 4 gamewinners this season alone. Scored 53 points in the WCF to put his team over the Suns and averaged 38 PPG last season in the series against Denver. And was very clutch against SA in 2007.

Not to mention Dirk Nowitzki has made the most game winners to put his team ahead for good in the final 2 seconds more than any other NBA player since 2005.


Not to mention that Dirk is second in 4th Quarter points in the NBA this season after LeBron James:

James - 7.5 Pts (.463%)
Dirk - 7.2 Pts (.447%) (144-150 FT's) That is (96%)
Anthony - 6.6 Pts
Roy - 6.7 Pts
Landry - 6.4 Pts
Terry - 6.1 Pts (gets most of his points when teams overplay Dirk)
Granger - 5.7 Pts


NOBODY in the NBA can guard Dirk one-on-one, which is why he gets double and triple-teamed in the playoffs. People say Dirk doesn't play defense, yet he has averaged one steal and one block per game over his twelve year career. Dirk is the only player in NBA history to get 150 blocks AND 150 three-pointers in a season, and the only player besides Larry Bird to shoot 50 percent from the field, 40 percent from three, and 90 percent from the line, all while averaging over 24 points per game.

He's an athletic freak okay good for him he's more athletic than Ewing. But, what most of you guys seen of Pat was the banged up knees Pat which was primarily a beastly jump shooter. You never saw him starting out when he was the perfect combo of speed, athleticism, and jump shot. Ewing was perfect he could do it all. Plus, DH12 may be a more intimidating defender than what Pat was, but I'd take Pat on the defensive end over the 2x DPOY in Howard. Reason being you guys have no idea how big of a defensive juggernaut the Knicks were in the 90's Ewing made his teammates better defensively. Not to mention Ewing is a much better offensive player than Howard not even close. Nor do I think Howard will ever develope a more than reliable FT shot or anything that isn't a dunk or from time to time a little baby hook. Not to mention Ewing is a much better passer.

Ive seen pat,i love pat pat,ask darko...i have a pat fetish.. Im not saying dwight is better than pat or ever will be but you cant count him out

I still give him the benefit of the doubt due to his age and think he'll go down in the books when it's all said and done as a great C, but I just can't see him being better than Pat in the future due to the fact that Pat was just so skilled everywhere. Hakeem Olajuwon is the only player I've seen play where I gracefully tip my cap out to him and say he's better than Pat as much as it pains me.

Give me a non-statistical reason why Dirk is 2nd best.
Before you even do that; give me a definition of what it means to be the best in your eyes.

I just wanna understand where you are coming from Tony

Someone who shows absolute skill that can't be touched by anyone {only one that can stop him is him}, someone that has accolades other than just a Championship {NBA MVP}, someone who hits big shots, someone who revolutionizes his position and the way people of his position play the game, people who put it out on the line for his team through the roughest of times in their personal life.

TonyEM: Mad Hat You Know wrote:

Eff Ben wrote:

You bash Wade a lot but...

Wade = 1 ring.

Dirk = 0 rings.

That's the only stat we need. And don't give me the "oh yeah Shaq led them there" shit because Wade made the singlehandely greatest MJ impersonation that series. Averaged 38 PPG. Don't tell me that isn't deserving.

And the truth to the matter is, as great as a player Dirk is, he IS a choker in big games. Best example: We Believe 2007 season. Game 6. Held to 8 points on 2-13 shots by AL FUCKING HARRINGTON. The worst defesnive PF in the league. And I'm sure you can relate to that Tony, being a Knicks fan and all. There were no excuses for him losing that series. Dallas may have had a lot of mismatches...but they were still the best team in the league. I'll give you another example: look at the Cleveland-Bulls series this year. Cleveland shoulda cruised right by them. But no, they had no one to guard Rose or Noah and as a result almost lost a couple games. Yet, they still came up in big moments and their superstar LeBron James amazed us all again with triple doubles in almost every game. Now THAT is what I call not being a choker. Dirk on the other hand couldn't even score with Harrington guarding him and LOST THE SERIES. Inexcusable.

He was constantly put to the line that entire series (very questionable; suspect). Shaq averaged a double-double. Haslem played his tail off. Posey made defensive stops. J-Will did a good job moving the game along. Payton made a huge and I mean huge shot that w/o the Heat would have gone down 3-0, and Zo (as much as I hate him) was swatting away everything left and right.

Dallas's 2 weaknesses were Miami's strength. Daniels and Dampier got abused by Wade and Shaq. Dirk was more than his solid usual self. 1 missed FT and all of a sudden he's labeled a choker. When he's hit countless clutch playoff shots with nothing to show for as of yet. D-Wade has missed big ft's in the playoffs himself and has had his fair share of stinkers. And what about since his championship they have not beaten Dallas since and even if his supporting cast is more than lacking Dirk outplays him in a lot of those match-ups. BTW no one thought after the Hornets beat the Mavs in 08' that in 09' they'd even be a playoff team, but how that turn out?

Why do you always have to bring up Dirk's teammates? We're talking about these two guys individually. Hell, if Dirk has had scrub teammates his whole career, then why does he STILL get 8 boards a game? I don't care if he shoots a jumper on the other end and swooshes it, if I'm coach I care if my big man is getting only 8 boards a game. Wade has a respectable jumper, an amazing drive, oh, and he actually PASSES. If Dirk is getting triple teamed and he has to pass why does he STILL only get 2 or 3 assists per game? Wade is double/triple teamed a lot as well and still gets 8 assists with a MUCH MUCH MUCH worse supporting cast than Dirk's.

And I'm too tired to I'm just gonna copy + paste this from my last post: And the truth to the matter is, as great as a player Dirk is, he IS a choker in big games. Best example: We Believe 2007 season. Game 6. Held to 8 points on 2-13 shots by AL FUCKING HARRINGTON. The worst defesnive PF in the league. And I'm sure you can relate to that Tony, being a Knicks fan and all. There were no excuses for him losing that series. Dallas may have had a lot of mismatches...but they were still the best team in the league. I'll give you another example: look at the Cleveland-Bulls series this year. Cleveland shoulda cruised right by them. But no, they had no one to guard Rose or Noah and as a result almost lost a couple games. Yet, they still came up in big moments and their superstar LeBron James amazed us all again with triple doubles in almost every game. Now THAT is what I call not being a choker. Dirk on the other hand couldn't even score with Harrington guarding him and LOST THE SERIES. Inexcusable.

It's called a bad game kind of like Wade's 8-22 showing against the Bulls in the playoffs. Yes Dirk can have bad games even if they are big games just like anyone else. How about this though is this big enough for you? It's just the WCF no biggie. And like I said before he averages 11 RPG in his career in the playoffs. Stop bringing his rebounding into the picture 11 RPG is pretty damn good. He grabbed 16 and 13 boards against Denver in the 5 games and averaged 11.6

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30z4f6-G3r0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OmE3B-s8ow -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u80cs1_wzGY

11 boards in what....5 or 6 playoff games a year? I'm not impressed. And if you want me to stop bringing up rebounding...then lets talk about Dirk's passing. I'll let you evaluate that yourself and compare it to Wade's passing.

Doesn't matter he elavates his play and production in the playoffs year in and year out that's what I'm talking about. And hey I also compared Dirk to Melo and last season in their head 2 head Dirk beat Melo in every statistical category including APG. That's just embarassing for Melo. Wade obviously would be a better passer if he's as much as a PG for his team than any of the starting 29 PG's out there.

We aren't talking about Melo. Melo isn't a good passer so Dirk getting more assists than him is not impressive either. Just compare WADE and DIRK in passing and we'll see why Dirk is the 2nd best player in the league .

Wade...

That's 1 category


Also most of Dallas's offense is based off of teams overplaying Dirk he doesn't have the ball 90% of the time like that of Wade yet it's almost as if it is because Dirk demands a lot of respect from opposing defenses. Look at a game you would see there are times he's practically frozen out of the offense not because the team wants that but because the opposing team is overplaying him wherever he is on the court he demands attention. So when Wade has the ball in his hands ready to create bout 90% of the time it's almost as if Dirk is part of a play when he isn't and that's when people like Jet feed off of the most. That is when Jet is playing well.

When Dirk dawns the #41 of his for that Nation Far to the East of the Coasts of the Orange & Blue he would lead a coalition of European sharpshooters in him and the Rooster {Gallo}. Then the coalition builds in numbers where the remaining David Lee, the ever so glorious #42 joins with him and that Orange and Blue Nation becomes a championshiop coalition. Put the newly acquired Rudy Gay into the mix and that championship coalition with Dirk, Lee, Gallo, Gay,Chandler, and maybe Harrington become a movement by themselves. By "by themselves" I mean all together. It's not until Bill Walker, Toney Douglas, Sergio Rodriguez, etc. join in the coalition does that movement turn into a force when they are all and by all I mean all assembled together. Dirk Nowitzki will prove all you wrong.

TonyEM: Mad Hat You Know wrote:

When Dirk dawns the #41 of his for that Nation Far to the East of the Coasts of the Orange & Blue he would lead a coalition of European sharpshooters in him and the Rooster {Gallo}. Then the coalition builds in numbers where the remaining David Lee, the ever so glorious #42 joins with him and that Orange and Blue Nation becomes a championshiop coalition. Put the newly acquired Rudy Gay into the mix and that championship coalition with Dirk, Lee, Gallo, Gay,Chandler, and maybe Harrington become a movement by themselves. By "by themselves" I mean all together. It's not until Bill Walker, Toney Douglas, Sergio Rodriguez, etc. join in the coalition does that movement turn into a force when they are all and by all I mean all assembled together. Dirk Nowitzki will prove all you wrong.

...what the hell does this have to do with Dirk being the #2 player in the NBA???

It has to do with the fact that he should start anew somewhere else so that he can prove his haters wrong and win if that's what it takes to prove them wrong. A change in scenery back East would do him better than being out West. Not as much steep competition realistically knock off one toughie and your golden.

TonyEM: 4eva Voice of NY wrote:

It has to do with the fact that he should start anew somewhere else so that he can prove his haters wrong and win if that's what it takes to prove them wrong. A change in scenery back East would do him better than being out West. Not as much steep competition realistically knock off one toughie and your golden.

So...you're saying Dirk will prove us wrong by playing on a better team against much softer competition? Uh...I'm not following. He would prove us wrong if he led his very talented team (himself, Kidd, Terry, Butler, Marion, Haywood, etc.) through the much tougher (top-to-bottom) West, instead of his flameouts and chokes, both of which have been described in great detail on this thread.

I dont like Dirk, even IF he was the 2nd best i wouldnt admit.

Hey Tony, I still don't think Dirk is #2 (not even close) but this is pretty interesting. You want to know who Dirk's nemesis is? It's not a player; it's a ref.

"Starting with the 2001 playoffs:

A. The Mavs are 2-16 in playoff games officiated by [Danny] Crawford since 2001 (including Game 3 of the Spurs series, a loss) ... and 46-39 in all other playoff games. They won their first 2001 playoff game with him (Game 5 versus Utah), so they've lost 15 of the past 16.

B. Against the spread, the Mavs are 4-14 with Crawford officiating ... and 45-40 in all other playoff games.

C. They averaged 21.9 free throws in the Crawford games; 27.1 free throws in the non-Crawford games.

So why does Danny rank so highly in the power rankings? Because any NBA official who can keep his job post-Donaghy with a documented history of bias against a particular team has to be commended. I'm being sarcastic. What a joke. The league could easily avoid these situations by admitting that, yes, from time to time, a team rubs an official the wrong way, and officials are human, and there's nothing we can do about this other than making sure the official and the team cross paths as little as possible -- like Crawford and Dallas, like Bill Kennedy and Boston, like Joey Crawford and San Antonio (1-4 in Crawford's five Spurs playoff games since he was suspended for ejecting Tim Duncan in 2007) -- but apparently it's easier to stick our heads in the sand and pretend this stuff isn't going on. You know, because Tim Donaghy's documented-by-the-FBI, staggeringly successful record of picking winners by playing on the biases of officials against certain teams didn't really happen. Even though it did. Let's just move on."
-Bill Simmons, http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/100429

Danny crawford LOOKS like someone who rigs games

imean..look at that damn mustache..

TonyEM: 4eva Voice of NY wrote:

Dwight Howard is NO PATRICK EWING nor WILL HE EVER BE Patrick Ewing that's for god damn sure. Ewing > Howard any day!!!

But he sure as hell better than Nowitzki already.

TonyEM: 4eva Voice of NY wrote:

He's an athletic freak okay good for him he's more athletic than Ewing. But, what most of you guys seen of Pat was the banged up knees Pat which was primarily a beastly jump shooter. You never saw him starting out when he was the perfect combo of speed, athleticism, and jump shot. Ewing was perfect he could do it all. Plus, DH12 may be a more intimidating defender than what Pat was, but I'd take Pat on the defensive end over the 2x DPOY in Howard. Reason being you guys have no idea how big of a defensive juggernaut the Knicks were in the 90's Ewing made his teammates better defensively. Not to mention Ewing is a much better offensive player than Howard not even close. Nor do I think Howard will ever develope a more than reliable FT shot or anything that isn't a dunk or from time to time a little baby hook. Not to mention Ewing is a much better passer.

1. Who the hell cares about passing for Centers?
2. Howard is 24 damn years old. Saying he won't develop better offense is like last year saying Rondo wouldn't have of increased his jumper; LeBron wouldn't have created a 3-point shot. They did. And even if he doesn't, so? He'll go down as one of, most likely the, greatest rebounder/shot blocker of All-time. Shaq. Everyone thought his size and unathletic body would hold him down. Limit his time. Limit his abilities. Last time I checked he's considered by a great many people as the greatest Center and is on almost every Top 10 All-time list I've ever seen, and is still going strong as a Top 5 center.
3. Last time I checked, when Ewing was 24 he had 21 pts/8 reb/2 blk. Dwight kills it in the rebounds and blocks. Patrick doesn't really kill it in the points, as he had a FG% of 50 compared to Howard's 61%...
4. EWING A BETTER DEFENDER THAN HOWARD!? If you haven't noticed, Dwight has averaged almost 3 blocks per game his last two seasons. Defensive juggernaut? At the same age as Dwight is now, Ewing's Knicks gave up 110 points a game on average. Shove that juggernaut up your ass.



I'll make you another long ass post to show how Dwight is not ALREADY better than Dirk but that Howard will more than likely be greater than Ewing when it's all over. Howard's rebounding and defense > Ewing at these skills. Ewing barely edges Howard in pts, at the same age, Ewing only has 3 more PPG at 24.

Have you seen the Knicks in the later part of the 90's we were indeed defensive juggernauts more so than what Orlando is now don't kid yourself. Ewing is right there in the most skilled C's of all-time. I love DH12 and all, but I just don't se him being better than Ewing tbh

ess-ohh-ell-ohh. wrote:

TonyEM: 4eva Voice of NY wrote:

Dwight Howard is NO PATRICK EWING nor WILL HE EVER BE Patrick Ewing that's for god damn sure. Ewing > Howard any day!!!

But he sure as hell better than Nowitzki already.

TonyEM: 4eva Voice of NY wrote:

He's an athletic freak okay good for him he's more athletic than Ewing. But, what most of you guys seen of Pat was the banged up knees Pat which was primarily a beastly jump shooter. You never saw him starting out when he was the perfect combo of speed, athleticism, and jump shot. Ewing was perfect he could do it all. Plus, DH12 may be a more intimidating defender than what Pat was, but I'd take Pat on the defensive end over the 2x DPOY in Howard. Reason being you guys have no idea how big of a defensive juggernaut the Knicks were in the 90's Ewing made his teammates better defensively. Not to mention Ewing is a much better offensive player than Howard not even close. Nor do I think Howard will ever develope a more than reliable FT shot or anything that isn't a dunk or from time to time a little baby hook. Not to mention Ewing is a much better passer.

1. Who the hell cares about passing for Centers?
2. Howard is 24 damn years old. Saying he won't develop better offense is like last year saying Rondo wouldn't have of increased his jumper; LeBron wouldn't have created a 3-point shot. They did. And even if he doesn't, so? He'll go down as one of, most likely the, greatest rebounder/shot blocker of All-time. Shaq. Everyone thought his size and unathletic body would hold him down. Limit his time. Limit his abilities. Last time I checked he's considered by a great many people as the greatest Center and is on almost every Top 10 All-time list I've ever seen, and is still going strong as a Top 5 center.
3. Last time I checked, when Ewing was 24 he had 21 pts/8 reb/2 blk. Dwight kills it in the rebounds and blocks. Patrick doesn't really kill it in the points, as he had a FG% of 50 compared to Howard's 61%...
4. EWING A BETTER DEFENDER THAN HOWARD!? If you haven't noticed, Dwight has averaged almost 3 blocks per game his last two seasons. Defensive juggernaut? At the same age as Dwight is now, Ewing's Knicks gave up 110 points a game on average. Shove that juggernaut up your ass.



I'll make you another long ass post to show how Dwight is not ALREADY better than Dirk but that Howard will more than likely be greater than Ewing when it's all over. Howard's rebounding and defense > Ewing at these skills. Ewing barely edges Howard in pts, at the same age, Ewing only has 3 more PPG at 24.

beautifully written. i agree

uh-may-zing. wrote:

TonyEM: 4eva Voice of NY wrote:

Dwight Howard is NO PATRICK EWING nor WILL HE EVER BE Patrick Ewing that's for god damn sure. Ewing > Howard any day!!!

But he sure as hell better than Nowitzki already.

TonyEM: 4eva Voice of NY wrote:

He's an athletic freak okay good for him he's more athletic than Ewing. But, what most of you guys seen of Pat was the banged up knees Pat which was primarily a beastly jump shooter. You never saw him starting out when he was the perfect combo of speed, athleticism, and jump shot. Ewing was perfect he could do it all. Plus, DH12 may be a more intimidating defender than what Pat was, but I'd take Pat on the defensive end over the 2x DPOY in Howard. Reason being you guys have no idea how big of a defensive juggernaut the Knicks were in the 90's Ewing made his teammates better defensively. Not to mention Ewing is a much better offensive player than Howard not even close. Nor do I think Howard will ever develope a more than reliable FT shot or anything that isn't a dunk or from time to time a little baby hook. Not to mention Ewing is a much better passer.

1. Who the hell cares about passing for Centers?
2. Howard is 24 damn years old. Saying he won't develop better offense is like last year saying Rondo wouldn't have of increased his jumper; LeBron wouldn't have created a 3-point shot. They did. And even if he doesn't, so? He'll go down as one of, most likely the, greatest rebounder/shot blocker of All-time. Shaq. Everyone thought his size and unathletic body would hold him down. Limit his time. Limit his abilities. Last time I checked he's considered by a great many people as the greatest Center and is on almost every Top 10 All-time list I've ever seen, and is still going strong as a Top 5 center.
3. Last time I checked, when Ewing was 24 he had 21 pts/8 reb/2 blk. Dwight kills it in the rebounds and blocks. Patrick doesn't really kill it in the points, as he had a FG% of 50 compared to Howard's 61%...
4. EWING A BETTER DEFENDER THAN HOWARD!? If you haven't noticed, Dwight has averaged almost 3 blocks per game his last two seasons. Defensive juggernaut? At the same age as Dwight is now, Ewing's Knicks gave up 110 points a game on average. Shove that juggernaut up your ass.



I'll make you another long ass post to show how Dwight is not ALREADY better than Dirk but that Howard will more than likely be greater than Ewing when it's all over. Howard's rebounding and defense > Ewing at these skills. Ewing barely edges Howard in pts, at the same age, Ewing only has 3 more PPG at 24.

LMAO. I love you 12 year olds

anyways, I'm sensing a bit of bias from both of you guys so I'm just gonna say a couple things myself:

1. SK's arguments are much more valid than yours, Tony.
2. Howard is ages beyond Ewing when it comes to defense. Hell, Ewing never even won a DPOY.
3. On the other hand, Ewing is ages beyond Howard on the offensive side.
4. There is a side to Howard we haven't seen. The dude CAN shoot a little, as witnessed in the ASG and in practices, but SVG admitted himself that he wanted Howard to just play in the post since Orlando has so many shooters already.
5. To continue on from 4., it is out right blasphemy to say Howard will not develop anything besides dunks/baby hooks. Dude's still 24.
6. Lastly, Ewing never won a ring. Yes, he got robbed by MJ a couple times, but let's not forget, Dwight Howard OVERCAME the MJ of this era, LeBron James in the playoffs last year.

Take that deoderant stick and shove it up your armpit!

Dub C wrote:

ess-ohh-ell-ohh. wrote:

TonyEM: 4eva Voice of NY wrote:

Dwight Howard is NO PATRICK EWING nor WILL HE EVER BE Patrick Ewing that's for god damn sure. Ewing > Howard any day!!!

But he sure as hell better than Nowitzki already.

TonyEM: 4eva Voice of NY wrote:

He's an athletic freak okay good for him he's more athletic than Ewing. But, what most of you guys seen of Pat was the banged up knees Pat which was primarily a beastly jump shooter. You never saw him starting out when he was the perfect combo of speed, athleticism, and jump shot. Ewing was perfect he could do it all. Plus, DH12 may be a more intimidating defender than what Pat was, but I'd take Pat on the defensive end over the 2x DPOY in Howard. Reason being you guys have no idea how big of a defensive juggernaut the Knicks were in the 90's Ewing made his teammates better defensively. Not to mention Ewing is a much better offensive player than Howard not even close. Nor do I think Howard will ever develope a more than reliable FT shot or anything that isn't a dunk or from time to time a little baby hook. Not to mention Ewing is a much better passer.

1. Who the hell cares about passing for Centers?
2. Howard is 24 damn years old. Saying he won't develop better offense is like last year saying Rondo wouldn't have of increased his jumper; LeBron wouldn't have created a 3-point shot. They did. And even if he doesn't, so? He'll go down as one of, most likely the, greatest rebounder/shot blocker of All-time. Shaq. Everyone thought his size and unathletic body would hold him down. Limit his time. Limit his abilities. Last time I checked he's considered by a great many people as the greatest Center and is on almost every Top 10 All-time list I've ever seen, and is still going strong as a Top 5 center.
3. Last time I checked, when Ewing was 24 he had 21 pts/8 reb/2 blk. Dwight kills it in the rebounds and blocks. Patrick doesn't really kill it in the points, as he had a FG% of 50 compared to Howard's 61%...
4. EWING A BETTER DEFENDER THAN HOWARD!? If you haven't noticed, Dwight has averaged almost 3 blocks per game his last two seasons. Defensive juggernaut? At the same age as Dwight is now, Ewing's Knicks gave up 110 points a game on average. Shove that juggernaut up your ass.



I'll make you another long ass post to show how Dwight is not ALREADY better than Dirk but that Howard will more than likely be greater than Ewing when it's all over. Howard's rebounding and defense > Ewing at these skills. Ewing barely edges Howard in pts, at the same age, Ewing only has 3 more PPG at 24.

beautifully written. i agree

If your saying that DH12 is more skilled than Ewing you are insane. Patrick Ewing is living greatness. And he had more heart in his little pinky than what DH12 has in his entire massive body of his. DH12 is way too gentle and complacent at times and is taken out of his game. Patrick Ewing would win title after title in today's game like it ain't no thang.

In terms of skill:

1. Hakeem Olajuwon
2. Patrick Ewing
3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

Only DWIGHT is 24. When EWING was 24 his "juggernaut" was a 110 point defensive team. At the same time they were scoring only 103 a game. They were 20th in a league of 23 teams in defense. Yeah, they were reeeal good.