Dirk Nowitzki is the 2nd best player in the NBA and here are the reasons...

First topic message reminder :

Career Playoffs:

Dirk Nowitzki - 25.5 PPG, 11 RPG, 2.6 APG, 45.4 FG%, 88 FT%, 2.1 TO
Kobe Bryant - 25 PPG, 5 RPG, 4.7 APG, 44.7 FG%, 81 FT%, 2.9 TO


This season Playoffs:

28 PPG, 8.8 RPG, 3 APG, 48.1 FG%, 97.1 FT%, 1.5 TO



I am sick and tired of people placing Dirk beneath players like Wade or Melo just because they are highlight reels waiting to happen because of athleticism when they both lack Dirk's skills and greatness.


Look at all the superstars that this league has to offer:


Now look at them that were champions:

Tim Duncan - I love Tim Duncan he's the man, but he has had Manu and Tony to take a lot of the pressure off of him in big pressure situations. TD has always delivered, but he has had help.

Kobe Bryant - Had Shaq putting up 29 PPG, 13.7 RPG, 2.5 BPG, MVP in all 3 Championships together


Dwyane Wade - Had Shaquille putting up 20 PPG, 10 RPG, 2 BPG. Not to mention that the 2006 NBA Finals was the most controversially called Finals I've ever seen in MIA's favor. But, do you realize that MIA's biggest advantages were Dallas's disadvantage. Marquis Daniels (SG) could not match up to Wade and Dampier (C) is nothing compared to Shaq. No one stopped Dirk in that Finals though and since then Wade has been trucked by Dirk and Dallas. Miami has not won since then. Back to the Finals it's amazing Dallas took them to 6 with all that and the refs bogus calls.


Do you realize that Brendan Haywood right now is probably the greatest C the Mavs had since Dirk's been here? That's pretty bad, but maybe it could have been a little better having him rather than Dampier in the 06 Finals. Heck Haywood has a chance to go down as the greatest C in Mavs history.


Also please tell me the reliable players Dallas has had to be paired up with Dirk? I don't mean the ones who live off of wide open jump shots from Dirk screens and double teams no, I'm talking about the ones who can drive the ball and create their own shot like Tony Parker or Manu Ginobili. I can think of only Steve Nash (4 healthy seasons) and Josh Howard(3 almost healthy seasons)they never got to play together since Nash was traded. Again NO shooting guard or center. Now, name all the teams who have won a championship with no true shooting guard or center that averages nowhere near a double double. Then I want you to tell me who else has lead a team mostly filled with underachievers to the finals and to the playoffs 10 out of 11 (all 50+ wins)seasons with less than what Dirk has had to work with?


DO YOU KNOW THAT DIRK NOWITKI IS 1 OF ONLY 5 Players to average 20/10 in his playoff career. The other 4 are: Hakeem Olajuwon, Shaquille O'Neal, Elgin Baylor, and Bob Pettit {pretty good company to be in no?}


Dirk has also only missed 29 games in 11 seasons:

LeBron has missed 22 games in 7 seasons
Kobe has missed 76 games in 11 of his 14 seasons
Dwyane Wade has missed 102 games in 7 seasons
Carmelo Anthony has missed 60 games in 7 seasons


People say Dirk is not a great defender, but Dirk does not turn the ball over as the franchise player. That is just as important as playing defense to have from your franchise player because it saves your team of the maximum times the opposing team can score on you.

LeBron James - 219 TO'S
Kevin Durant - 217 TO's
Dirk Nowitzki -109 TO's

*Meaning Dirk has saved his team from giving up a maximum of 324 points off TO's in just 60 games compared to James and Durant.


People question his clutchness when Dirk has made 4 gamewinners this season alone. Scored 53 points in the WCF to put his team over the Suns and averaged 38 PPG last season in the series against Denver. And was very clutch against SA in 2007.

Not to mention Dirk Nowitzki has made the most game winners to put his team ahead for good in the final 2 seconds more than any other NBA player since 2005.


Not to mention that Dirk is second in 4th Quarter points in the NBA this season after LeBron James:

James - 7.5 Pts (.463%)
Dirk - 7.2 Pts (.447%) (144-150 FT's) That is (96%)
Anthony - 6.6 Pts
Roy - 6.7 Pts
Landry - 6.4 Pts
Terry - 6.1 Pts (gets most of his points when teams overplay Dirk)
Granger - 5.7 Pts


NOBODY in the NBA can guard Dirk one-on-one, which is why he gets double and triple-teamed in the playoffs. People say Dirk doesn't play defense, yet he has averaged one steal and one block per game over his twelve year career. Dirk is the only player in NBA history to get 150 blocks AND 150 three-pointers in a season, and the only player besides Larry Bird to shoot 50 percent from the field, 40 percent from three, and 90 percent from the line, all while averaging over 24 points per game.

TonyEM: 4eva Voice of NY wrote:

It's the principle of the thing Ewing is the Knicks. He is by far the greatest player in Knicks history {not even close} and we've had our fair share of HOF'ers. His personality epitomized the city as well better than Hakeem's personality. I look at the faithful service of 15 years that he put he blood, sweat, and tears to giving this city a team that they can cheer for and have a cult following of a tough rough and ready team. It was a culture back then. Ewing and the Knicks go hand in hand. I find that more important than Hakeem beating out Ewing and Shaq in the Finals. It's not all about rings and I'm loyal to Ewing as my favorite player of all-time. How about the way that miserable tart in Scott Layden worst GM in NY history that started all of this mess running Ewing out of town like he meant nothing tearing the hearts of Knicks faithful everywhere? And Ewing understood the business aspect of all this and still considers himself a New Yorker and Knick nonetheless like nothing has changed. That's not only class but it shows character. Ewing was nicknamed the Warrior for a reason and I prefer him as a player over Hakeem even though Hakeem proved to be the better player in their careers. And again even through all the injuries in the final stages of their careers the more banged up Ewing was better than Hakeem Olajuwon in the closing stages of their careers. Olajuwon lost a lot of what made him Olajuwon. I'm also 100% positive that if Ewing was in today's NBA in the Eastern Conference away from people like MJ he would have a whole slew of rings.

You know what Tony I like how you think haha Ewing would have dominated todays game like there was no tomorrow but personally if you ask me I think he would have been dominated by David Lee (assuming they are on different teams) because David Lee does not have the body Ewing does but boy does he make me wanna go piss in my pants when I see him play. It's almost as if he is a robot in fact I think he is come to think of it haha. And you're right for all those Ewing/NY haters out there I'd like to ask you this how many chucks would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood? Answer as well as you like but the answer is a David Lee number of chucks. And that's a lot. But the thing is Lee and chucks cannot be associated together in the same sentence because it is common knowledge that Lee is not a ballhog haha if you do then I don't know where you've been lately because NY is where it's at homie. When it's all said and done I think Ewing and Lee will go down as two of the most talented centers of all-time no bias.

Ewing:
* I see 2 different Ewing's:

Pre-heavy injuries:

Perfect combo of offensive/defense abilities: could also block and rebound, heck of a passer that was unselfish and found the open man. Had a great deal of athleticism (not like DH12 in just power and in his hops} but Ewing could take it upon himself to take it coast to coast like it was nothing. Had a wide range of both low post moves and fall back j's. Could score from every corner on the floor. Nice chase down blocks; not LeBron, but still rather effective

Only real weakness is that at times got too overconfident and was turnover prone


Post-heavy injuries:

Lost nearly all of his lift and become a more methodical scorer and learned to play exceptionally well off of his man and the team defensively. Read offenses beautifully on the defensive end more during this time and would body up more often keeping his man with him knowing that he lacked the speed he once had.

Developed his shooting touch particularly his vintage fall-back.
Still unselfish team leader w. ability to find his teammates
*played more outside during this period than in the post...

Always been a solid FT shooter, but it was at the time of his most significant of injuries where he lived on the line most often cause he made it a priority to get there and get a large portion of most of his points there. He also had some of his better FT% seasons in this period in his career.

Weaknesses still remained in his overconfidence and turnovers have always been a consistent aspect of his life in the NBA

DH12:

Is a great blocker
Great team help defender I think his man 2 man coverage needs more work though IMO
Great athleticism and physical ability

Has not yet mastered the art of the kickout when he is swarmed down low in the post
Is a pretty horrid FT shooter
Gets overly flustered at times
Has virtually no low post moves in his arsenal

And certainly would never develope a shot like Ewing had, but he doesn't even seem like he can be a consistent threat 10 ft out.

David Lee-MAN AMONG BOYS wrote:

TonyEM: 4eva Voice of NY wrote:

It's the principle of the thing Ewing is the Knicks. He is by far the greatest player in Knicks history {not even close} and we've had our fair share of HOF'ers. His personality epitomized the city as well better than Hakeem's personality. I look at the faithful service of 15 years that he put he blood, sweat, and tears to giving this city a team that they can cheer for and have a cult following of a tough rough and ready team. It was a culture back then. Ewing and the Knicks go hand in hand. I find that more important than Hakeem beating out Ewing and Shaq in the Finals. It's not all about rings and I'm loyal to Ewing as my favorite player of all-time. How about the way that miserable tart in Scott Layden worst GM in NY history that started all of this mess running Ewing out of town like he meant nothing tearing the hearts of Knicks faithful everywhere? And Ewing understood the business aspect of all this and still considers himself a New Yorker and Knick nonetheless like nothing has changed. That's not only class but it shows character. Ewing was nicknamed the Warrior for a reason and I prefer him as a player over Hakeem even though Hakeem proved to be the better player in their careers. And again even through all the injuries in the final stages of their careers the more banged up Ewing was better than Hakeem Olajuwon in the closing stages of their careers. Olajuwon lost a lot of what made him Olajuwon. I'm also 100% positive that if Ewing was in today's NBA in the Eastern Conference away from people like MJ he would have a whole slew of rings.

You know what Tony I like how you think haha Ewing would have dominated todays game like there was no tomorrow but personally if you ask me I think he would have been dominated by David Lee (assuming they are on different teams) because David Lee does not have the body Ewing does but boy does he make me wanna go piss in my pants when I see him play. It's almost as if he is a robot in fact I think he is come to think of it haha. And you're right for all those Ewing/NY haters out there I'd like to ask you this how many chucks would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood? Answer as well as you like but the answer is a David Lee number of chucks. And that's a lot. But the thing is Lee and chucks cannot be associated together in the same sentence because it is common knowledge that Lee is not a ballhog haha if you do then I don't know where you've been lately because NY is where it's at homie. When it's all said and done I think Ewing and Lee will go down as two of the most talented centers of all-time no bias.

I love David Lee like there's no tomorrow. But, if Ewing played in today's game and was matched up with David Lee. Lee would get seriously abused like there was no tomorrow. Cause for one he plays no defense and 2 Ewing has more skill set than any C today. Lee has gotten the best of the best found in the PF/C's, but Ewing would kick his ass 8-12 times assuming they met 4 times a year.

BTW Lee is not a C and no he won't if he even was. And Ewing already is 1 of the most talented C's ever to play the game what's all this in "will be".

I play the bullshit card. Lee is more talented than any Center in today's game, as Ewing was last decade.

Patrick Ewing was my boy.

Sucks how the Knicks treated him and traded him to Seattle. All the pain and injuries and the John Starks (who was my boy too) moments killed him. He sacraficed himself for that team and for that city and the NY brass thanked him by sending him to the Sonics.

Damn shame.

Ewing is the 2nd most talented C of all-time:

1. Olajuwon
2. Ewing
3. Jabbar


Best C of all-time IMO

1. Jabbar
2. Russell
3. Olajuwon
4. Shaq
5. Ewing

And do not put Lee into your sick bullshit games he is not 1 of the greatest players of all-time but right now, especially if he like he said and shown has the capacity for comes back next season with 3 point range. And if he could play d at least half way decently. I see him as a top 5 PF.

1. Dirk/Duncan
3. Gasol
4. Bosh
5. Lee
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
6. Jamison/Boozer/Randolph
9. Amar'e
10. Lewis

Nick C wrote:

Patrick Ewing was my boy.

Sucks how the Knicks treated him and traded him to Seattle. All the pain and injuries and the John Starks (who was my boy too) moments killed him. He sacraficed himself for that team and for that city and the NY brass thanked him by sending him to the Sonics.

Damn shame.

Hated that trade it didn't show in 2001 cause NY was still good that season, but that was the trade that started it all (years of sucking) for what we got in return and the bad decisions Layden and then an almost as bad successor in Thomas made over the years.


Ewing for an over the top Glen Rice, an over the top Vernon Maxwell, and then a whole slew of scrubs in: Luc Longley, Travis Knight, Vladimir Stepania, and Lazaro Borell. Also NY packaged away Chris Dudley to PHX in that trade as well hahahaha. Dudley DoRight hahahaha sucked but hustled.

TonyEM: 4eva Voice of NY wrote:

Nick C wrote:

Patrick Ewing was my boy.

Sucks how the Knicks treated him and traded him to Seattle. All the pain and injuries and the John Starks (who was my boy too) moments killed him. He sacraficed himself for that team and for that city and the NY brass thanked him by sending him to the Sonics.

Damn shame.

Hated that trade it didn't show in 2001 cause NY was still good that season, but that was the trade that started it all (years of sucking) for what we got in return and the bad decisions Layden and then an almost as bad successor in Thomas made over the years.


Ewing for an over the top Glen Rice, an over the top Vernon Maxwell, and then a whole slew of scrubs in: Luc Longley, Travis Knight, Vladimir Stepania, and Lazaro Borell. Also NY packaged away Chris Dudley to PHX in that trade as well hahahaha. Dudley DoRight hahahaha sucked but hustled.

I'd didn't need to show any effect for me in 2001. Me being a Knicks admirer (still my second favorite team ever in the NBA) when I lived in Queens for a couple of years it made me not care about the Knicks. I felt like it was just such a kick in the nuts to Ewing.

Oh man, I use to call Chris Dudley "Miss" Dudley... That dude had the worst freethrow shot ever. Not FT% (tho 45% is really f'n bad)... I mean it just looked so ugly. I'll even take Chuck Hayes drunken master FT shot over "Miss" Dudley's.

Miss Dudley did have a terribly awkward FT shot hahahahha. And your right it truly must have been a kick in the nuts to Ewing for all he did for this franchise. Hahahaha Nate Robinson is getting schooled. Let me just add that in my best PF list IMO in the NBA I forgot to include KG. Well I'll put him @ 6th and slide Amar'e to 10th with Lewis barely missing the cut. It's crazy to think that I could forget K.G. but his decline in health and game have lead me to do so which seems just crazy to think about.

TonyEM: 4eva Voice of NY wrote:

Miss Dudley did have a terribly awkward FT shot hahahahha. And your right it truly must have been a kick in the nuts to Ewing for all he did for this franchise. Hahahaha Nate Robinson is getting schooled. Let me just add that in my best PF list IMO in the NBA I forgot to include KG. Well I'll put him @ 6th and slide Amar'e to 10th with Lewis barely missing the cut. It's crazy to think that I could forget K.G. but his decline in health and game have lead me to do so which seems just crazy to think about.

Yeah, as much as I'm not a big fan of this version of KG (he was always intense, just not a dick), he's still in my top 10 of PF's. I just think guys like KG can't handle it when they can't do the things they use to do.

Kinda' like Larry Johnson.

When LJ's back went out on him he's still played through a ton of pain that he never talked about or made excuses for (dude wore a modified backbrace). But when it came to teammates not giving their all or the media he wasn't Mr. Sunshine.

Damn I miss Larry Johnson.

I loved Grand Ma Ma turned into a pretty deadly perimeter player in NY from a complete high octane high powered athletic beast in CHA. I remember that back brace as well. The injuries really hampered him in the end though you could see them take its toll on him there were no complaints coming from him and he played through them. But, he did have the propensity to lash out on the media and try to do too much at times when the injuries restricted what he was once able to do. Maybe that all came with him trying to cope with the realization that he was not the same player. But, I still believe he transitioned his game quite beautifully here in NY.

if it wasnt 2 am andif i wasnt 12 y/o i would go bananas in here. (:
but it is. night guys.

Crocodile Alligator wrote:

Ive seen pat,i love pat pat,ask darko...i have a pat fetish.. Im not saying dwight is better than pat or ever will be but you cant count him out

True.Visa simply loves Ewing's game

ess-ohh-ell-ohh. wrote:

TonyEM: 4eva Voice of NY wrote:

Dwight Howard is NO PATRICK EWING nor WILL HE EVER BE Patrick Ewing that's for god damn sure. Ewing > Howard any day!!!

But he sure as hell better than Nowitzki already.

TonyEM: 4eva Voice of NY wrote:

He's an athletic freak okay good for him he's more athletic than Ewing. But, what most of you guys seen of Pat was the banged up knees Pat which was primarily a beastly jump shooter. You never saw him starting out when he was the perfect combo of speed, athleticism, and jump shot. Ewing was perfect he could do it all. Plus, DH12 may be a more intimidating defender than what Pat was, but I'd take Pat on the defensive end over the 2x DPOY in Howard. Reason being you guys have no idea how big of a defensive juggernaut the Knicks were in the 90's Ewing made his teammates better defensively. Not to mention Ewing is a much better offensive player than Howard not even close. Nor do I think Howard will ever develope a more than reliable FT shot or anything that isn't a dunk or from time to time a little baby hook. Not to mention Ewing is a much better passer.

1. Who the hell cares about passing for Centers?
2. Howard is 24 damn years old. Saying he won't develop better offense is like last year saying Rondo wouldn't have of increased his jumper; LeBron wouldn't have created a 3-point shot. They did. And even if he doesn't, so? He'll go down as one of, most likely the, greatest rebounder/shot blocker of All-time. Shaq. Everyone thought his size and unathletic body would hold him down. Limit his time. Limit his abilities. Last time I checked he's considered by a great many people as the greatest Center and is on almost every Top 10 All-time list I've ever seen, and is still going strong as a Top 5 center.
3. Last time I checked, when Ewing was 24 he had 21 pts/8 reb/2 blk. Dwight kills it in the rebounds and blocks. Patrick doesn't really kill it in the points, as he had a FG% of 50 compared to Howard's 61%...
4. EWING A BETTER DEFENDER THAN HOWARD!? If you haven't noticed, Dwight has averaged almost 3 blocks per game his last two seasons. Defensive juggernaut? At the same age as Dwight is now, Ewing's Knicks gave up 110 points a game on average. Shove that juggernaut up your ass.



I'll make you another long ass post to show how Dwight is not ALREADY better than Dirk but that Howard will more than likely be greater than Ewing when it's all over. Howard's rebounding and defense > Ewing at these skills. Ewing barely edges Howard in pts, at the same age, Ewing only has 3 more PPG at 24.

Dwight will end up as one of the greatest centers ever,overall,in rebounding,shot blocking,defense....I think he needs to do a better job of playing defense against his man but hey,with the Magic beeing a great defensive team they are,they don't need him to cover everything against his man.

ess-ohh-ell-ohh. wrote:

Pretty much anyone would have been "flustered" if 3 big men with 7'+ wingspans were all up on your jock for a whole series. He still killed records.

That's only one of the many reasons why ATHLETICISM is important. As strong as he is, it's pretty hard for Dwight to be injured. Really hard.

Yes but Dwight is still the same age some ROOKIES and he's done all that but better, outside of the points.

Dwight crushes records,he's a BEAST.He did have 12/10 in his ROY seasons but he became much,much better later as he averaged 22/14/3.