If LeBron James doesn't get a ring?

First topic message reminder :

Will he go down in history as one of the most overrated players, a failure or will there still be a debate that he's a great player?

I might be busy, I have to teach Dwyane and Chris how a condom works. Weird how they both want to know at the same time, and how Chris is the only one who's "going to be needing it soon". (not Dwayne and Chris from RBT btw, Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosh).

But Heat and Magic logos ftw?

Maybe we can make the two logos pissing on the Celtics logo.

cbi wrote:

wear welding gloves. dont wannna burn your hands.

thanks mom.

wear welding gloves... phhhhhhft!

I can't see lebron being top 10 without a ring. If he doesn't win a ring he will be karl malone 2.0

He will never be considered top 10 if he doesn't get a ring. He's going to be playing with Wade and Bosh the next five years. If you're top 10 all time, and one of your teammates is arguably the best player at his position in the NBA (Wade) and you have another teammate that is one of the most talented bigs in the NBA (Bosh) and you DON'T win a championship, then something went terribly wrong. He needs a ring regardless of his career stats to be considered top 10 all time. He'll go down as a lesser version of Oscar Robertson if he doesn't. He's not as good a passer, as good of a rebounder, or as good as a defender. He can score but his career points average is probably going to drop below 25 if he plays 5 seasons with Wade and then gets older.

Malone is possibly (POSSIBLY, a lot of people don't consider him there) top 10 but he averaged 25 for his career and 20+ all the way until his final year. He also played 19 seasons and in 17 of them he played 80+ games. He missed just 9 games in those seasons and just 82 overall. He missed just 5 games in his first 13 seasons. LeBron has already missed 26 games in his first 7 seasons. He's not going to have Malone's durability. Of all the other guys Raza listed, NONE of them come close to top 10.

Miller? No way. Barkley actually takes a lot of shit for never winning one. Iverson is a fallen star who some don't even consider a top 5 shooting guard. LeBron needs a couple rings to get there.

Look at the All Time Draft Game

1. Jordan - 6 rings
2. Magic - 5 rings
3. Kareem - 6 rings
4. Wilt - 2 rings (a lot of people say he's overrated)
5. Larry Bird - 3 rings
6. Hakeem - 2 rings
7. Duncan - 4 rings
8. Big O - 1 ring (this is the guy LeBron would be compared to if he got 0 or 1)
- Big O's career averages - 25.7, 9.5, 7.5; LeBron's - 27.8, 7, 7
- Big O's averages through 7 seasons - 30+, 10+, 8+
- LeBron's numbers and dominance will never be better than Big O's if he doesn't have a ring
9. Shaq - 4 rings
10. Bill Russell - 11 rings

Would you really put a LeBron over any of these guys w/o a ring? Then there's the guys that are 11-25 or so. Does he even beat all of them? Probably not. He's an amazing player with freakish size and athleticism, but that won't mean anything for his career if he doesn't win any rings, especially with the teammates that he has. His numbers are only going to go down if he doesn't improve his finesse game, especially if he ever suffered a knee injury. He should win rings (I think he'll win a couple w/ Miami), but with Wade there, I still don't know if I'd put him in the top 10 over anyone. So without a ring, I'd never put him there.

Dub C wrote:

He will never be considered top 10 if he doesn't get a ring. He's going to be playing with Wade and Bosh the next five years. If you're top 10 all time, and one of your teammates is arguably the best player at his position in the NBA (Wade) and you have another teammate that is one of the most talented bigs in the NBA (Bosh) and you DON'T win a championship, then something went terribly wrong. He needs a ring regardless of his career stats to be considered top 10 all time. He'll go down as a lesser version of Oscar Robertson if he doesn't. He's not as good a passer, as good of a rebounder, or as good as a defender. He can score but his career points average is probably going to drop below 25 if he plays 5 seasons with Wade and then gets older.

Malone is possibly (POSSIBLY, a lot of people don't consider him there) top 10 but he averaged 25 for his career and 20+ all the way until his final year. He also played 19 seasons and in 17 of them he played 80+ games. He missed just 9 games in those seasons and just 82 overall. He missed just 5 games in his first 13 seasons. LeBron has already missed 26 games in his first 7 seasons. He's not going to have Malone's durability. Of all the other guys Raza listed, NONE of them come close to top 10.

Miller? No way. Barkley actually takes a lot of shit for never winning one. Iverson is a fallen star who some don't even consider a top 5 shooting guard. LeBron needs a couple rings to get there.

Look at the All Time Draft Game

1. Jordan - 6 rings
2. Magic - 5 rings
3. Kareem - 6 rings
4. Wilt - 2 rings (a lot of people say he's overrated)
5. Larry Bird - 3 rings
6. Hakeem - 2 rings
7. Duncan - 4 rings
8. Big O - 1 ring (this is the guy LeBron would be compared to if he got 0 or 1)
- Big O's career averages - 25.7, 9.5, 7.5; LeBron's - 27.8, 7, 7
- Big O's averages through 7 seasons - 30+, 10+, 8+
- LeBron's numbers and dominance will never be better than Big O's if he doesn't have a ring
9. Shaq - 4 rings
10. Bill Russell - 11 rings

Would you really put a LeBron over any of these guys w/o a ring? Then there's the guys that are 11-25 or so. Does he even beat all of them? Probably not. He's an amazing player with freakish size and athleticism, but that won't mean anything for his career if he doesn't win any rings, especially with the teammates that he has. His numbers are only going to go down if he doesn't improve his finesse game, especially if he ever suffered a knee injury. He should win rings (I think he'll win a couple w/ Miami), but with Wade there, I still don't know if I'd put him in the top 10 over anyone. So without a ring, I'd never put him there.

Dub C wrote:

He will never be considered top 10 if he doesn't get a ring. He's going to be playing with Wade and Bosh the next five years. If you're top 10 all time, and one of your teammates is arguably the best player at his position in the NBA (Wade) and you have another teammate that is one of the most talented bigs in the NBA (Bosh) and you DON'T win a championship, then something went terribly wrong. He needs a ring regardless of his career stats to be considered top 10 all time. He'll go down as a lesser version of Oscar Robertson if he doesn't. He's not as good a passer, as good of a rebounder, or as good as a defender. He can score but his career points average is probably going to drop below 25 if he plays 5 seasons with Wade and then gets older.

Malone is possibly (POSSIBLY, a lot of people don't consider him there) top 10 but he averaged 25 for his career and 20+ all the way until his final year. He also played 19 seasons and in 17 of them he played 80+ games. He missed just 9 games in those seasons and just 82 overall. He missed just 5 games in his first 13 seasons. LeBron has already missed 26 games in his first 7 seasons. He's not going to have Malone's durability. Of all the other guys Raza listed, NONE of them come close to top 10.

Miller? No way. Barkley actually takes a lot of shit for never winning one. Iverson is a fallen star who some don't even consider a top 5 shooting guard. LeBron needs a couple rings to get there.

Look at the All Time Draft Game

1. Jordan - 6 rings
2. Magic - 5 rings
3. Kareem - 6 rings
4. Wilt - 2 rings (a lot of people say he's overrated)
5. Larry Bird - 3 rings
6. Hakeem - 2 rings
7. Duncan - 4 rings
8. Big O - 1 ring (this is the guy LeBron would be compared to if he got 0 or 1)
- Big O's career averages - 25.7, 9.5, 7.5; LeBron's - 27.8, 7, 7
- Big O's averages through 7 seasons - 30+, 10+, 8+
- LeBron's numbers and dominance will never be better than Big O's if he doesn't have a ring
9. Shaq - 4 rings
10. Bill Russell - 11 rings

Would you really put a LeBron over any of these guys w/o a ring? Then there's the guys that are 11-25 or so. Does he even beat all of them? Probably not. He's an amazing player with freakish size and athleticism, but that won't mean anything for his career if he doesn't win any rings, especially with the teammates that he has. His numbers are only going to go down if he doesn't improve his finesse game, especially if he ever suffered a knee injury. He should win rings (I think he'll win a couple w/ Miami), but with Wade there, I still don't know if I'd put him in the top 10 over anyone. So without a ring, I'd never put him there.

I like you

Dub C is my hero.