Iggy leaving Philly?

Rumors say that he wants to leave and preferably he wants to go in Chicago.
The most common trade is Iggy for Deng. Problem is that if 76ers were to give Iggy they would start over again and Deng's contract doesn't help.
Imo if somehow Iggy gets trade to Chicago for Deng, Bulls would automatically be contenders.

G - Rose
G - Iggy or Brewer
F - Iggy or Korver
F - Boozer
C - Noah

Also would the Bulls give that much money for their 2nd-3rd option? Deng was overpaid too.

Now with the rise of the Holiday and the effective rookie Turner,he may not want that but it's his call

Iggy isn't any better than deng. maybe a slightly better fit because iggy can finish at the rim better but deng can pretty much do that too.

I will not be happy if this happens. Deng is a better rebounder and a more consistent shooter than Iguodala. Iguodala is a better passer and a slightly better defender than deng. But Deng is bigger than him. Deng has also improved his 3pt. shot. Tom Thibs really likes Deng and Deng really likes the system...

If we traded Deng [along with someone else], I would want someone who would make a huge impact on the bulls. Iguodala probably won't do that since he isn't really an upgrade over deng. Plus, Iguodala has more years/money left on his contract.

The ONLY way I see the bulls making this trade is if they had already talked to the nuggets about Melo and were told that they would rather have Iggy than Deng.

actually I was thinking about it..

if this trade were to happen, I would want Iggy at SG. then if we got a a 3pt. shooting SF, the bulls would have a very balanced team. A top 5 PG [Rose], a solid defensive/passing SG [Iguodala], a good shooting SF [who knows.], a low post scorer at PF [Boozer], and a defensive C [Noah.

that wouldn't be bad...

LOL Rose Top 5 PG

But on topic...I don't see why Philly would make this trade heads up...Deng plays the same position, and while he is bigger, he's not anywhere near as dynamic. Essentially this would save the 76ers $1 million a year, and losing Iggy for Deng is far from worth it, since Luol is only 1 year younger.

As for the Bulls, it might force a change...but Iggy IS the better player. Just would wonder what it'd be like having Rose and Iggy on the same team. Two guys that can handle and pass, but probably shouldn't be the number 1 option doing it.

dude.. u have Rondo at 1... don't talk. and how isn't he top 5? I can't think of 5 better than him.

Rose not top 5 i try my best to hate on rose but...how?

Bulls N' Bears wrote:

dude.. u have Rondo at 1... don't talk. and how isn't he top 5? I can't think of 5 better than him.

Rondo
Nash
Williams
Paul

and I'd take at least Billups and Westbrook over him. Because, while I think he'd be pretty good playing as something other than point guard, I don't want him as my team's distributor.

It's not very often that great teams' point guards are also the leading scorer. Most of the ones I can think of are also good on defense. Rose isn't.

Wow, Rondo over Williams AND Paul?
How?!

you can't think of many scoring PG's because a lot of guys that have a PG's body that can score usually play SG. Ben gordon? The reason why they play Sg is cuz they can't handle the ball as well and ONLY look to shoot. rose looks to pass. he's just the bulls best scoer as well. The other scoring PG's are usually on the bench because the're just not that good.

Billups over rose? HA. Billups isn't as good of a scorer as Rose, isn't as fast or athletic, they both averaged the same amount of assists last year and billups played with more talent... only thing he has on him is a 3pt. shot and D.


Rondo at 1 is a lot more laughable than Rose in the top 5. Quit being Biased, Ryan. I know it's hard not to be.. but just try. you can do it big boy.

@ Jaleesa

Not been watching? He has two seperate 17+ assist games already.

He's also the best defensive point guard in the League. That counts for a lot.

He defends. He passes. The two things you must have from your point guard, he does as well as anyone in the NBA. Deron competes for the number 1 slot. Want to see what he does with a less pick-n-roll inclined Al Jefferson.

Paul is a better scorer than Rondo. Paul is also a very solid defender. Paul has made his teammates a lot better. Paul is a good rebounder. Paul is an amazing defender.

Williams ^^. not as agood of a defender though.

Rondo- good defender and passer.. his teammates made him better.

He's a perfect PG for the CELTICS. he is not the best PG in the NBA. def. not better thab Paul and Williams

Bulls N' Bears wrote:

Billups over rose? HA. Billups isn't as good of a scorer as Rose, isn't as fast or athletic, they both averaged the same amount of assists last year and billups played with more talent... only thing he has on him is a 3pt. shot and D.

Billups plays defense. Billups knows how to rotate an offense. Rose passes the ball to the wing, waits half a second and calls for the ball back. Also...Billups averaged 1.2 less points on 4.2 less shots. He scores differently, but he's just as effective if not more so. Rose is a VERY talented player, but he's not cut out to be a PG. The potential to be one isn't even there. He's a player who is quick, athletic, and likes to have the ball in his hands. It's how he initiates because he's not big enough to slash off-ball.

Rose getting anywhere from 6-8 assists as much as he handles the ball isn't good enough. He plays point guard, but that doesn't mean he's good at it. He'd be a lot more effective in a different role. Like a super-suped up Lou Williams. We all know Iverson is far from being a great point guard. He was a great scorer, but at times, he was a detriment to the team when he had to be the creator for his teammates. Rose and Iverson aren't exactly similar in any other way, but really good players are less great when playing a position they don't fit at. Not sure we'll ever see Rose somewhere else, though. Part of the reason I think we probably won't ever see him get a ring.

Bulls N' Bears wrote:

Paul is a better scorer than Rondo. Paul is also a very solid defender. Paul has made his teammates a lot better. Paul is a good rebounder. Paul is an amazing defender.

Williams ^^. not as agood of a defender though.

Rondo- good defender and passer.. his teammates made him better.

He's a perfect PG for the CELTICS. he is not the best PG in the NBA. def. not better thab Paul and Williams

A perfect point guard is a perfect point guard. He plays in arguably the most balanced offense in the NBA. If you can excel in something so balanced (meaning that he really isn't the teams only capable ballhandler and still does well), you can excel in pretty much any system. It's not like he can't score. We've seen it from him. Without a championship caliber roster. Rondo was the third wheel of the big three in the 08-09 playoffs. Just because he's not a reliable shooter doesn't mean he can't score. LeBron is a great scorer...why? Because he gets to the rim. You can't praise one players scoring and demerit another for the same thing. Rondo led all PGs in FG% last season.

I think you misunderstand "making your teammates better." Yes, playing with a great Boston team made Rondo better. There's no doubt. He was a young player and that was a great opportunity. He improved overall. However, the way that matters as far as being the best PG is making a team play better around him. He does that. He's the Celtics best player now, and sometimes they look lost without him (especially in the playoffs last year). He makes them play better when he's on the court.

Rondo is also a good rebounder...Rondo plays on a good rebounding team...Paul does not. His numbers will be higher. I'm not arguing that he's a better scorer than anyone. Even if he was, that's not why he's better. He's a better defender than all of them. And as good of a ballhandler and passer as any of them. The two most important jobs a point guard can do. Stop the other point guard, and get his team points. He does both. You could argue that Paul is pretty good at both as well, but Paul is not a great defender. He has the stats of a great defender. He's a pickpocket, but he doesn't play as good man-man as Rondo. Not close.

Thats kinda what a PG is supposed to do when rotating the offense. pass to the wing,wing looks for big,not there back to the PG,PG to the other wing,big man goes to the other block,not there back to the PG and the offense is his. Rose is a PG..period. If people didnt think he was a PG they would have no problem moving him to sg (dwade).

Rose handles the ball a lot, but he isn't averaging many assists... uhhh maybe because the bulls NEED him to score? I'm sure if Thibs/Negro told him to take only about 14 shots a game and pass the ball more, he would have... but since he's our best scorer, it makes sense for him to score more and pass less.

You're right, Iverson wasn't a great PG... that's why he mostly played SG.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/The-10-best-shooting-guards-of-the-last-decade?urn=nba-192484
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dime-greatestsgs

Rose is a good PG. As much as he handles the ball, he doesn't turn it over a lot [almost 1 less a game than nash last year], he handles the ball very well, he's a good scorer and he is a good passer. just cuz he doesn't rack up 10 APG doesn't mean he's a bad passer.

DWade is 6'5" Big enough to dominate at SG. I don't know about 6'3" Wade's actually a better pg anyway... :/

and no...you gotta share the ball, and let players get in the rythym. if you give the ball up to a player that you don't want having the ball, then he shouldn't be on the floor. players become extremely inconsistent when they don't stay in the flow of the game. rose does a lot of running around with the ball, and after a quick pass and pass back sometimes, takes a half-step back jumper...a good point guard doesn't do that consistently.

Bulls N' Bears wrote:

Rose handles the ball a lot, but he isn't averaging many assists... uhhh maybe because the bulls NEED him to score? I'm sure if Thibs/Negro told him to take only about 14 shots a game and pass the ball more, he would have... but since he's our best scorer, it makes sense for him to score more and pass less.

Um...you know, if you make a play for a teammate and they score...it's equal to if you score yourself. When you create for yourself (ISO), your shooting percentage is lower. There's no argument there. So, if you're a PG, and you're a good passer, you should...guess what? Pass the ball to open teammates rather than continue to shoot.

and I never argued turnovers...Beno Udrih led PGs in turnovers per minute last year...that's not really a big deal. they're definitely a bad thing, but not the most important.

Dub C wrote:

Bulls N' Bears wrote:

Paul is a better scorer than Rondo. Paul is also a very solid defender. Paul has made his teammates a lot better. Paul is a good rebounder. Paul is an amazing defender.

Williams ^^. not as agood of a defender though.

Rondo- good defender and passer.. his teammates made him better.

He's a perfect PG for the CELTICS. he is not the best PG in the NBA. def. not better thab Paul and Williams

A perfect point guard is a perfect point guard. He plays in arguably the most balanced offense in the NBA. If you can excel in something so balanced (meaning that he really isn't the teams only capable ballhandler and still does well), you can excel in pretty much any system. It's not like he can't score. We've seen it from him. Without a championship caliber roster. Rondo was the third wheel of the big three in the 08-09 playoffs. Just because he's not a reliable shooter doesn't mean he can't score. LeBron is a great scorer...why? Because he gets to the rim. You can't praise one players scoring and demerit another for the same thing. Rondo led all PGs in FG% last season.

I think you misunderstand "making your teammates better." Yes, playing with a great Boston team made Rondo better. There's no doubt. He was a young player and that was a great opportunity. He improved overall. However, the way that matters as far as being the best PG is making a team play better around him. He does that. He's the Celtics best player now, and sometimes they look lost without him (especially in the playoffs last year). He makes them play better when he's on the court.

Rondo is also a good rebounder...Rondo plays on a good rebounding team...Paul does not. His numbers will be higher. I'm not arguing that he's a better scorer than anyone. Even if he was, that's not why he's better. He's a better defender than all of them. And as good of a ballhandler and passer as any of them. The two most important jobs a point guard can do. Stop the other point guard, and get his team points. He does both. You could argue that Paul is pretty good at both as well, but Paul is not a great defender. He has the stats of a great defender. He's a pickpocket, but he doesn't play as good man-man as Rondo. Not close.

Put Rondo on a shitty team and I'm 100% you won't get the same results. you'll still get D from him, but you still won't be getting many points and you sure as hell won't wee 24 assists in a game. Paul and williams both did play for a shitty team and they both played at a very high level.

Did u seriously just compare LeBron scoring to Rondo scoring? SERIOUSLY? Rondo can't shoot the ball further than 8 feet from the rim. James was 33% from the 3 last year.. that's pretty decent. Is dwight howard considered a good SCORER? no.. he just dominates in the paint. doesn't make u a greast SCORER.

Paul is an amazing rebounder for his size.. idk how many times he was short of a triple double becuase he only had 7-9 rebounds.. which is a lot for a PG. Paul is an amazing defender... made it the the all-D first and second team.. Rondo made first team last year. who was injured last year? Paul.

Put Paul or Williams on the Celics and they would be just as good or even better. Put Rondo on the Hornets or Jazz, and those teams will get worse cuz both of those teams rely on Paul and williams to score and distribute... Rondo can only provide one of those.

Dub C wrote:

DWade is 6'5" Big enough to dominate at SG. I don't know about 6'3" Wade's actually a better pg anyway... :/

and no...you gotta share the ball, and let players get in the rythym. if you give the ball up to a player that you don't want having the ball, then he shouldn't be on the floor. players become extremely inconsistent when they don't stay in the flow of the game. rose does a lot of running around with the ball, and after a quick pass and pass back sometimes, takes a half-step back jumper...a good point guard doesn't do that consistently.

he's 6-4. And thats not how you play basketball. every play starts with swinging the ball. if there nothing off of that the ball always comes back to the PG and he calls a play for a player,take it himself . remember..theres a 24 sec shot clock. if the pass isnt made quick to the post when the ball was swung to the wing then nothing gonna develope over there and theres no point in him having the ball the quicker you rotate the ball the more out of position defenses will be...

Dub C wrote:

Bulls N' Bears wrote:

Rose handles the ball a lot, but he isn't averaging many assists... uhhh maybe because the bulls NEED him to score? I'm sure if Thibs/Negro told him to take only about 14 shots a game and pass the ball more, he would have... but since he's our best scorer, it makes sense for him to score more and pass less.

Um...you know, if you make a play for a teammate and they score...it's equal to if you score yourself. When you create for yourself (ISO), your shooting percentage is lower. There's no argument there. So, if you're a PG, and you're a good passer, you should...guess what? Pass the ball to open teammates rather than continue to shoot.

Then what's the difference? if you pass and get an assist.. you help your team. If you score and put points on the board... you're helping your team. either way points are being put on the board.. so who cares?
and Rose's FG% is very good for a scoring PG. Almost 50% last year. so....


and btw Wade is 6'4... not 6'5. You know what other PG's is 6'4? Westbrook and Wall.

Dub C wrote:

DWade is 6'5" Big enough to dominate at SG. I don't know about 6'3" Wade's actually a better pg anyway... :/

and no...you gotta share the ball, and let players get in the rythym. if you give the ball up to a player that you don't want having the ball, then he shouldn't be on the floor. players become extremely inconsistent when they don't stay in the flow of the game. rose does a lot of running around with the ball, and after a quick pass and pass back sometimes, takes a half-step back jumper...a good point guard doesn't do that consistently.

wait wait wait...

Rose shouldn't be a PG because he's more of a scorer and blah blah blah... right?

but Wade, one of the best scorers in the league should be a PG?

last year Wade led the league with the amount of time he had the ball in his hands and he averaged 6.5 APG.. Rose had 6... and turned the ball over more than Rose.

and I guess you don't watch many bulls games... cuz Rose actually makes a lot of nice passes to set up his teammates. Just because you see a few prime time games where he's trying to be a hero and score 1000 points doesn't mean he's a bad passer and ruins the flow of the game. The bulls actually look lost when rose isn't out there. Last year it was a little better cuz he had Kirk, but for the most part, the bulls need Rose out there to function.

But that is just two games. And Ramon Sessions has raked in 24 and 16 assists before on 2 different occasions (I know his defense isn't as good though)...would that qualify him as a potential top PG as well?

And I should add that Paul had a 16 assists game this season as well...and Williams averaged more assists than Rondo last season. And Williams' teamates consisted of Carlos "butterfingers" (lol love that term Nick C) Boozer, CJ Miles (who is inconsistent at times)...yeah, the Jazz had some nice pieces at the time but not as good comparing to the Big Three; therefore, in some cases, making Rondo's job slightly easier with regards to dishing out assists.

I would need to see alot more before I can make that bold choice to rank him higher than Paul and Williams who are two amazing point guards. Besides, Paul and Williams are capable as well of raking in assists in the double digits...not only that, they are capable of doing much more (Nenad summed it up pretty well). I rather have a PG that is all-around and can do it all rather than a PG that is significantly good in one area (defense). To me, they are more all-around than Rondo is.

I am reading your arguments and they aren't bad at all...but for me, not compelling enough to sway my viewpoints. Everyone is entitled to their opinions though!

Bulls N' Bears wrote:

Put Rondo on a shitty team and I'm 100% you won't get the same results. you'll still get D from him, but you still won't be getting many points and you sure as hell won't wee 24 assists in a game. Paul and williams both did play for a shitty team and they both played at a very high level.

Did u seriously just compare LeBron scoring to Rondo scoring? SERIOUSLY? Rondo can't shoot the ball further than 8 feet from the rim. James was 33% from the 3 last year.. that's pretty decent. Is dwight howard considered a good SCORER? no.. he just dominates in the paint. doesn't make u a greast SCORER.

Paul is an amazing rebounder for his size.. idk how many times he was short of a triple double becuase he only had 7-9 rebounds.. which is a lot for a PG. Paul is an amazing defender... made it the the all-D first and second team.. Rondo made first team last year. who was injured last year? Paul.

Put Paul or Williams on the Celics and they would be just as good or even better. Put Rondo on the Hornets or Jazz, and those teams will get worse cuz both of those teams rely on Paul and williams to score and distribute... Rondo can only provide one of those.

Rondo's scoring went up in 08-09 when the Celtics got worse w/o KG. Rondo's assists per game went up in 08-09 when KG was out in the playoffs too. And that was the playoffs...where the competition is tougher. How do you surmise both would get worse? That's the only evidence we have of him on a dramatically different team.

Rondo hit a multiple jumpers he created for himself against the Cavs (only game I've got to see of him so fart) including a 3. So while he's not a good shooter from beyond a certain point (I wouldn't say 8 feet, most of the shots he takes there are runners), he can still hit them. Shaq wasn't a great scorer? All he did was dominate inside. Bottom line it equals points on the board, which is scoring.

You know who else made All 1st Team defense? LeBron. 1st team does not automatically make you a great defender. Do you really want to put Paul's D and Rondo's D to a poll? We both know how that'd come out, based on just about any population. Rondo is also a good rebounder. He plays for a team that actually plays good defense and rebounds. There aren't as many loose balls because of poor rebounding. You can't argue that Paul is a MUCH better rebounder. Even if he was a better rebounder, it'd be by the slightest of margins.

Hey, you know, I saw Deron and Paul as a Celtic last night too. It was awesome. They were so much better than Rondo. So lifelike too. Oh yeah, that didn't happen :/