If Michael Jordan never won any championships where would you rank him all time?

I wouldn't put him in top 5 because the ability to lead your team to a championship is a must to be in that company. Top 10 seems reasonable to me.

To me, Rings don't effect a player's status in how great he is.

He would still have those MVPs, those All Star games, All NBA Teams, his Defense, greatness, whether or not he had Pippen.

I have Olajuwon over Jabbar, CHamberlain, Russell, O'Neal.

I would put him at #14 because he would be missing out on alot of accomplishments and i would have to rank Other players who have accomplished more, especially in the Playoffs and Finals ahead of him.

The hook shot over the dream shake anyday.

I agree, Top 10.

Being undefeated in the Finals, 6 rings and 6 Finals MVPs have greatly influenced his G.O.A.T. name

I would still rank him in the top 5, rings aren't everything. If they were then Bill Russell would be the GOAT and Robert Horry would be just as good as MJ.

MJ would still be in my top 5 becauseI rank a player based on greatness, leadership qualities, and sportsmanship, and even if MJ never won a ring I would still say that he was one of the GOAT because he has every one of those things Not to mention 10 scoring titles .

MC aka Mother Curser wrote:

The hook shot over the dream shake anyday.

The Kobe fadeaway over the Hook shot anyday.

Horry never led his team to anything, he was NEVER the man. Russell played in an era where there are like 13 NBA teams and no salary cap so the small teams never had a chance. With that said I think rings are a validation of skills, because you are great so you can lead your team to championships, and to qualify for top 5 all time that's a must for me.

also if Jordan never won any rings than he isn't a good leader.

I would still have him ranked pretty high because as an individual player, he was simply amazing.

But even as a bulls fan, I would not consider him the GOAT because he wouldn't have been considered a winner

Great Thread.

Too hard to tell. No one knows what I would have thought.
I think it depends close he would have gotten, but we would be throwing him in with the Karl Malones and Charles Barkleys.

Then again, he would'nt be Jordan without the championships.

If Karl Malone had 4 championships, would you rank him over Tim Duncan?
This question actually might change my views on a lot of things, because it isn't fair to judge a player based on the ability of their general manager, but then how should we judge them?

It's a never ending question.

MC aka Mother Curser wrote:

Horry never led his team to anything, he was NEVER the man. Russell played in an era where there are like 13 NBA teams and no salary cap so the small teams never had a chance. With that said I think rings are a validation of skills, because you are great so you can lead your team to championships, and to qualify for top 5 all time that's a must for me.

also if Jordan never won any rings than he isn't a good leader.

Yup i agree

He wouldnt have 6 rings
he wouldnt have 6 Final MVPS
He wouldnt be considered a winner
He wouldnt be considered a leader
He wouldn't have any Final stats
He would have less Career points due to not making the Finals
He wouldn't be considered dominant
He wouldn't be considered G.O.A.T

Certainly not the best, but in the top ten.

Look what happened to Dominique, great player, but he had no rings if he had at least 1 ring people would regard him as a much better player

I ranked Jordan in top 10 because I always considered Jerry West a top 10 player, maybe Kobe bumped him to #11 last year, but if West's 1 championship (he was like 1-5 in Finals) put him in top 10 then Jordan's superior skills should make up for just one championship.

MC aka Mother Curser wrote:

The hook shot over the dream shake anyday.

Hook Shot>Dream Shake? Are you high?

The Dream Shake completely killed big men in his era, while Johnson and Jabbar can hook it, who can't make a hook shot? Yet a Center being able to do all that Olajuwon does, that's crazy.

Dream Shake>Hook Shot

The Hook Shot was unblockable, I don't really want to go in further details.

Ugh! I wouldn't either.

I mean I think rings mean a lot.

SK wrote:

MC aka Mother Curser wrote:

The hook shot over the dream shake anyday.

Hook Shot>Dream Shake? Are you high?

The Dream Shake completely killed big men in his era, while Johnson and Jabbar can hook it, who can't make a hook shot? Yet a Center being able to do all that Olajuwon does, that's crazy.

Dream Shake>Hook Shot

right everyone can do the hookshot, Kareem mastered it better than anybody and that shot simply can't be blocked. If Olajuwon went up agains the Showtime Lakers he wouldn't stand a chance. If Jordan never retired I doubt Olajuwon can win a ring, Jordan was too rusty in 95 to be dominating.

SK how are u going to block a hookshot from a 7'2 center?

if Yao can master the sky hook like Kareem he would be unstoppable, barring injuries.

I would probably have him in the top 5-8. I reserve the top spots for guys that have led their teams to championships. Leadership and winning are very important factors for me. Oscar Robertson only won 1 championship toward to end of his career and I put him in about the same slot.

he would still be top 10. If he hadn't been on championship teams he would have averaged 38 points for his career. So he would be top 5 even without a championship because his career number would have been through the roof. Something like this:

37pnt, 7reb, 8ast, 3stl, 2blk

That would have been simply amazing.

West Coast Bias FC wrote:

he would still be top 10. If he hadn't been on championship teams he would have averaged 38 points for his career. So he would be top 5 even without a championship because his career number would have been through the roof. Something like this:

37pnt, 7reb, 8ast, 3stl, 2blk

That would have been simply amazing.

Jordan's best year was 37pts 8reb 8ast, and this was when he had nobody, in his prime and was getting bumped out of the first round every year. I highly doubt Jordan can average that kind of stat even if he was playing a one man show.

Still in the top 10. His stats alone are insane

top 5, maybe top 10.

rings mean something to me i can't just ignore them.

I wouldn'g have him as the GOAT, or probably top 5 that's for sure.
You NEED rings to be in that conversation. Maybe 7 or 8 all time.