Assists: An Overrated Stat?

I already have a list of people in my head that I know will disagree with this.. but hear me out.

*If you read this next paragraph, Chris, calm down. I’m using this one example from rondo because that’s the play that got me thinking about this. It’s an example to help me prove my point.

I’ve always kinda thought this.. but I didn’t give it too much thought until about 1 week ago while watching the Celtics/Bucks game. I usually don’t look at the box score on the computer while watching a game, but this time I had my laptop with me and the box score was open to the C’s/Bucks game. Closer to the end of that game, Kevin Garnett was standing up close to the 3pt. Line and rondo passed him the ball. Just a simple pass… KG pump faked his defender, took a dribble and spun passed him.. when he got near the rim, he went up, got fouled and kinda hung in the air and made the shot. As I looked down on my computer screen to see how many points KG had that game, the page refreshed itself and I saw that Rondo got credited an assist on that play. Now tell me, how the hell is that an assist? Rondo did absolutely nothing to help KG make that shot. He gave him the ball, and KG made like 2-3 moves before putting up the shot. If KG had taken the shot once he got the pass from Rondo, then yeah I would get why that was an assist. But a pass, then KG doing his own thing creating his own shot and rondo getting an assist? I thought the statistician might have made an error.

Nope.

Every game I have watched since then, I have been trying to pay attention to those kinds of plays… and the guys making that pass usually did get the assist.

You know what that reminded me of? A quarterback throwing a 2-yard screen pass to his running back. The running back breaks a few tackles and runs 60 yards for the TD. The QB really didn’t do anything there. A 10 year old can complete a 2-yard screen pass. But the completion and the yards show up on the QB’s stat sheet as well even though he really didn’t do anything. Same in basketball. The passer will make a simple pass to his teammate. His teammate does all the work and scores [like KG], but the passer gets credit for the assist. Idk why a player would get credit for that assist though. he really didn’t do ANYTHING.

Now to the passes that I actually do consider an assist: A PG standing there at the top of the 3 pt. Line. He calls a play. His teammates are working hard to get open.. one of them gets open and the PG passed him the ball. But it’s a very basic pass.. maybe even a short one.. like 10 feet. As his teammate catches the ball, his defender is running at him.. but the player gets off a tough shot with a man in his face. So he gets the basket and the PG gets the assist. Is that a legitimate assist? Yes. But again, what did the PG really do there? Nothing really.. just passed the ball to the guy the play was designed for and that player made the shot. The pass wasn’t special, and sometimes the shot isn’t special. But the player shooting that ball did a lot more work than the guy passing it.

When you’re watching a game, do you sit there and say “wow, what a pass.” When a player/PG makes that kinds pass? Hell no. Why? Cuz the pass was something ordinary and not special at all. But if the guy shooting the ball, you’ll say “wow what a shot.”

Passes that turn into assists that show the true meaning of an assist to me:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgBxefhGaNs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfceQCcsia8&feature=fvsr
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PE1M7x0z2-I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icVOcHvyO9Q


you get what I’m talking about. Also, driving to the rim and drawing the defense and finding a man on the outside is a great assist. Ally-oops are nice assists. Etc. But a basic short pass to a open man requires no skill… or not a lot of skill.

So my point is.. if you don’t watch a game and look at the box score when the game is over and see that a player got over ten assists that game, you think “wow he had a great game!!” even if he didn’t score much. But if you watched that same game, you really wouldn’t have that reaction because 8 out of the 13 assist that player had wasn’t really anything to brag about.

Points, rebounds, assists, blocks, etc. are things to brag about though. If a guy has 15+ rebounds in a game, you know he worked hard for most of those. If a guy has 30+ points, you know he was working for those points. Same with steals and blocks. But with assists… a player doesn’t really do much most of the time. [unless it’s like those plays I showed above + some]

So I’m not discrediting players that get a lot of assists.. I’m saying that people kinda blow It up when a guy gets a lot of assists when really, a lot of those assists were nothing special.


share your opinions!! i wanna know how u feel about it.

Agreed with that.

Just because you get alot of assists doesn't make you a good passer. Having stronger teammates can also help you get alot more assists and if you must play with the ball in your hands and be a scorer you can't get as many assists as well

Throwing a pass anybody could throw to somebody streaking on a breakway is something that isn't much of an assist to me but counts in the stat sheet.

Assists show that you can be a quality passer but assist numbers can be deceving. Assists require the player your passing to to make the shot as well. I know from playing that there's many times you make a good or great pass to somebody and they miss a shot they very well could've or should've made

Thats what I always said about chris paul. I definitely agree,man.. I consider a true astrunning the fast break finding the right man or running a play and making a perfect pass..rondo gets alot of those "bullshit" ast

yeah. I mean, If a guy gets 15 assists.. he's probably a good passer.. but of those 15 assists, probably only like 5 are "wow" passes. the rest go unnoticed. But that's if you're watching. if not, you think "wow the guy had 15 assists!! he's a beast" ...but it was nothing special.

Good post

There's the difference you show.Guys who can lead you to easy points are play makers such are Paul,Williams,LeBron etc.Guys who can find you open are just good passers.It depends on you will you make that shot or not.That's the main difference.Chris Paul can crack 11 assists per game with any supporting cast and create for them,while some can't

I'm not pointing out any player in particular. Cuz every player has very "mehh" assists. I'm saying assists as a whole.

I agree.I've seen some of the assists that Rondo gets credit for.I don't even think they should be considered assists.Imagine,some legends of the past getting credit and assists to count like this.There's no way Rondo is a better passer than Cousy.If Cousy got to assist like this,he would have reach 15 000 at least

Rondo gets a lot of nice assists.. but he also has a lot of assists that he didn't really work to get.

but that goes for every player.. which is why I think peple overrate a 10+ assist game.

Well this's kinda true but w/e.

Wb easy rebounds? Wb easy pts(when someone like Rondo sets you up[you like Rondo examples right? ]? Wb great passes that the man gets hacked or misses?

If you wanna mention something mention everything.

Why did you mention my name in the 1st place btw? I'm not the most die hard Rondo fan here..

lol rondo sux

Chris wrote:

Well this's kinda true but w/e.

Wb easy rebounds? Wb easy pts(when someone like Rondo sets you up[you like Rondo examples right? ]? Wb great passes that the man gets hacked or misses?

If you wanna mention something mention everything.

Why did you mention my name in the 1st place btw? I'm not the most die hard Rondo fan here..

I actually did think about writing something about points and rebounds.. but think about it... how many times do you see ONE player get 8 easy rebounds in one game? Guys have to usually fight to get the rebound or hustle to get the rebound. Yes, sometimes the rebound just lands in their hands.. but most of the time the fight for it. Same with points. Not very often does a player have a wide open look or a clear path to the basket.

but a player makes a simple pass that turns into an assist a lot of times.

And that's exactly why I mentioned ur name hahaha. I also added a video of Rondo where he makes a nice pass so u didn't think I was attacking him haha

Bulls N' Bears wrote:

I’ve always kinda thought this.. but I didn’t give it too much thought until about 1 week ago while watching the Celtics/Bucks game. I usually don’t look at the box score on the computer while watching a game, but this time I had my laptop with me and the box score was open to the C’s/Bucks game. Closer to the end of that game, Kevin Garnett was standing up close to the 3pt. Line and rondo passed him the ball. Just a simple pass… KG pump faked his defender, took a dribble and spun passed him.. when he got near the rim, he went up, got fouled and kinda hung in the air and made the shot. As I looked down on my computer screen to see how many points KG had that game, the page refreshed itself and I saw that Rondo got credited an assist on that play. Now tell me, how the hell is that an assist? Rondo did absolutely nothing to help KG make that shot. He gave him the ball, and KG made like 2-3 moves before putting up the shot. If KG had taken the shot once he got the pass from Rondo, then yeah I would get why that was an assist. But a pass, then KG doing his own thing creating his own shot and rondo getting an assist? I thought the statistician might have made an error.

Nope.

Every game I have watched since then, I have been trying to pay attention to those kinds of plays… and the guys making that pass usually did get the assist.

You know what that reminded me of? A quarterback throwing a 2-yard screen pass to his running back. The running back breaks a few tackles and runs 60 yards for the TD. The QB really didn’t do anything there. A 10 year old can complete a 2-yard screen pass. But the completion and the yards show up on the QB’s stat sheet as well even though he really didn’t do anything. Same in basketball. The passer will make a simple pass to his teammate. His teammate does all the work and scores [like KG], but the passer gets credit for the assist. Idk why a player would get credit for that assist though. he really didn’t do ANYTHING.

Now to the passes that I actually do consider an assist: A PG standing there at the top of the 3 pt. Line. He calls a play. His teammates are working hard to get open.. one of them gets open and the PG passed him the ball. But it’s a very basic pass.. maybe even a short one.. like 10 feet. As his teammate catches the ball, his defender is running at him.. but the player gets off a tough shot with a man in his face. So he gets the basket and the PG gets the assist. Is that a legitimate assist? Yes. But again, what did the PG really do there? Nothing really.. just passed the ball to the guy the play was designed for and that player made the shot. The pass wasn’t special, and sometimes the shot isn’t special. But the player shooting that ball did a lot more work than the guy passing it.

When you’re watching a game, do you sit there and say “wow, what a pass.” When a player/PG makes that kinds pass? Hell no. Why? Cuz the pass was something ordinary and not special at all. But if the guy shooting the ball, you’ll say “wow what a shot.”

Passes that turn into assists that show the true meaning of an assist to me:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgBxefhGaNs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfceQCcsia8&feature=fvsr
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PE1M7x0z2-I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icVOcHvyO9Q


you get what I’m talking about. Also, driving to the rim and drawing the defense and finding a man on the outside is a great assist. Ally-oops are nice assists. Etc. But a basic short pass to a open man requires no skill… or not a lot of skill.

Agree all the way to this point. I started noticing last year that a lot of scorekeepers do have too broad a definition of an assist. You aren't supposed to be credited with one if the player you pass to makes a "basketball move" to create their own shot. In a lot of cases (especially when players are at home), players are awarded assists when they shouldn't be. I think some scorekeepers are worse than others, and not all give out a lot of extra assists each night. But I do agree some assists shouldn't be going down in the stat book as assists.

Bulls N' Bears wrote:

So my point is.. if you don’t watch a game and look at the box score when the game is over and see that a player got over ten assists that game, you think “wow he had a great game!!” even if he didn’t score much. But if you watched that same game, you really wouldn’t have that reaction because 8 out of the 13 assist that player had wasn’t really anything to brag about.

However, if a player has totaled up 13 assists on the night, or even just 10, it's highly unlikely that such a high percentage of their assists came of such plays. At the max, I'd say only 25% or 2-3 assists could come off those types of plays. In addition, those assists don't always get awarded to players every night. As a rule, an assist is quantified as "the last pass to a teammate that leads directly to a field goal; the scorer must move immediately toward the basket for the passer to be credited with an assist; only 1 assist can be credited per field goal." I've heard many different announcers sum it up as a pass that leads to a basket without the receiving player making a "basketball move." It is incorrect for an assist to be recorded on any play that does not fit that description, and the scorekeepers are supposed to know the definition of each stat in order to record it correctly. The stat isn't always going to be recorded correctly, but it's certainly not the case that it's always recorded wrong. It would be an extremely rare night for any player to end up with 8 assists that should never have been calculated.

Bulls N' Bears wrote:

Points, rebounds, assists, blocks, etc. are things to brag about though. If a guy has 15+ rebounds in a game, you know he worked hard for most of those. If a guy has 30+ points, you know he was working for those points. Same with steals and blocks. But with assists… a player doesn’t really do much most of the time. [unless it’s like those plays I showed above + some]

In bold, I'm going to assume you meant steals.

If the assist can be devalued, then so can points, rebounds, and steals. Blocks to an extent, but not anywhere near as much. At any given time of the game, a player will get a wide open layup, dunk, or jump shot because of a lucky bounce, a good pass, a loose ball, or an offensive rebound. We don't discredit their points though, even though they made an easy play. Same goes for rebounds. When Perkins or Okafor or Haywood or any other big man blocks out their guy and allows for an easy uncontested rebound by another player, who really did the work? All the other guy did was go get a loose ball. We don't discredit their rebounds. They still made the play. As for steals, the person who knocks the ball away isn't always credited with the steal. The player who picks up the ball actually receives the stat. Did he make the play? No, but we don't discredit the fact that he got the steal. In the end though, a players statistical totals round out either way. If they're averaging a lot of rebounds, it's probably safe to assume that not all of those rebounds are easy rebounds. This would also go for assists, steals, and points.

Bulls N' Bears wrote:

So I’m not discrediting players that get a lot of assists.. I’m saying that people kinda blow It up when a guy gets a lot of assists when really, a lot of those assists were nothing special.

So basically I agree with the information you presented, but you came to an irrelevant conclusion. Just because some statisticians over-record assists doesn't mean that assists are overrated in general. Most of those assists are still plays where the passer initiated the offense and helped make the play.

I Really cant decide..

Its overated,but somewhat inportent to

Overated:
When its a simple pass adn the otherplayer makes a move and gets a point...thats SEVERLY

Inportent:
When you make a play and get a guy a easy jumper..


please elobarate when needed...

Adding to the steals thing. It could be a TERRIBLE pass too.

lol just sayin.

DH4MVP wrote:

Adding to the steals thing. It could be a TERRIBLE pass too.

lol just sayin.

Or YOU could have hustled to tip the pass, then your teammate picks up the ball easily, giving THEM and assist and not you

Assist?

Dub C wrote:

If the assist can be devalued, then so can points, rebounds, and steals. Blocks to an extent, but not anywhere near as much. At any given time of the game, a player will get a wide open layup, dunk, or jump shot because of a lucky bounce, a good pass, a loose ball, or an offensive rebound. We don't discredit their points though, even though they made an easy play. Same goes for rebounds. When Perkins or Okafor or Haywood or any other big man blocks out their guy and allows for an easy uncontested rebound by another player, who really did the work? All the other guy did was go get a loose ball. We don't discredit their rebounds. They still made the play. As for steals, the person who knocks the ball away isn't always credited with the steal. The player who picks up the ball actually receives the stat. Did he make the play? No, but we don't discredit the fact that he got the steal. In the end though, a players statistical totals round out either way. If they're averaging a lot of rebounds, it's probably safe to assume that not all of those rebounds are easy rebounds. This would also go for assists, steals, and points.

I think this exact paragraph sums it up nice and smoothly.

What i said extended.

That was a good read. I agree and I also think that about steals and blocks too. Hell... this actually works for almost every stat... maybe free throw % is the only true stat.

The thing is, you can basically make a point that there are a lot of stats that can be overrated.

Not just assists.

Dub C wrote:

However, if a player has totaled up 13 assists on the night, or even just 10, it's highly unlikely that such a high percentage of their assists came of such plays.

When I said 8/13 assists are like that.. I meant a mix between passes that I don't consider assists and easy passes that anyone could make... And the other 5 are passes that actually make you say "wow what a pass."

Dub C wrote:

In bold, I'm going to assume you meant steals.

If the assist can be devalued, then so can points, rebounds, and steals. Blocks to an extent, but not anywhere near as much. At any given time of the game, a player will get a wide open layup, dunk, or jump shot because of a lucky bounce, a good pass, a loose ball, or an offensive rebound. We don't discredit their points though, even though they made an easy play. Same goes for rebounds. When Perkins or Okafor or Haywood or any other big man blocks out their guy and allows for an easy uncontested rebound by another player, who really did the work? All the other guy did was go get a loose ball. We don't discredit their rebounds. They still made the play. As for steals, the person who knocks the ball away isn't always credited with the steal. The player who picks up the ball actually receives the stat. Did he make the play? No, but we don't discredit the fact that he got the steal. In the end though, a players statistical totals round out either way. If they're averaging a lot of rebounds, it's probably safe to assume that not all of those rebounds are easy rebounds. This would also go for assists, steals, and points.

So basically I agree with the information you presented, but you came to an irrelevant conclusion. Just because some statisticians over-record assists doesn't mean that assists are overrated in general. Most of those assists are still plays where the passer initiated the offense and helped make the play.

I already kinda explained the points, rebounds thing to chris. But how many times does a guy get a bunch of blocks a game? And blocks COULD be devalued for a big man..cuz they could have 5 blocks on a 6 footer. but if a guard had 5 blocks, that would be very impressive. Steals is a tricky one cuz a player could be standing around and the ball would find its way to him. And like I told Chris, If a player scores, lets say 30 points, what are the chances that he had 8 wide open looks? it's not often that ANY player has a lot of good looks, unless the defender is just horrible. Most good scorers also face double teams. So when they score 30, it's impressive. But with assists, when you watch a game, you can see that a lot of passes that lead to assists aren't really anything special. It'll be a 10 foot pass to a guy who is open at the time of the pass which leads to a made shot.. that's obviously an assist. but how great of a pass was it? Not that great. it was just another play.

That's why I think assists are overrated. You look at the box score and see 13 assist and think, "wow." and a lot of people would use assists to measure how good a player is. but when you're actually watching the game, those assists don't seem so "wow." there are also games where a guy would have 10+ assists and most of them are sick as fuck and make u stand up... but most of the time, it's no big deal. So if a PG does have 10 "boring" assists in a game, I'm not gonna discredit it, but I'm not gonna talk about his 10+ assists game either cuz it probably wasn't all that great.

so really I was talking about 2 things. Passes that shouldn't be assists and passes that aren't difficult to make at all. If it's not difficult, then it's nothing special...

Nick C wrote:

That was a good read. I agree and I also think that about steals and blocks too. Hell... this actually works for almost every stat... maybe free throw % is the only true stat.

The thing is, you can basically make a point that there are a lot of stats that can be overrated.

Not just assists.

yeah, like I told chris, I was thinking about adding rebounds and stuff in there, but I was really focusing on assists for this thread.

I don't think blocking shots for a guard is overrated though. Even rebounding. cuz usually, guards aren't very good at it haha. So the one's that are.. they should be recognized for it. U, chris and ryan are right though.. those CAN be overrated as well.

Like you said for shotblocking with guards and rebounding for guards, its probably a legit stat. Steals in the paint too, for forwards and centers.

It would be cool if there was like... I dunno... raw rebounding, shooting, steals and assists categories... but then I think that would just be too much... maybe.

It would be interesting to see a true system that cuts steals off bad passes or fumbled catches and counts only steals from man to man defense... shot blocking too. No weakside, or behind the defender blocks. No shots while open or fast break points (unless defended), just shots while defended.

Man. I like this idea.

Nick C wrote:

Like you said shot blocking too. No weakside, or behind the defender blocks.

But then Lebron wouldn't get his blocks.
Automatic "No" from the NBA

and stelas dont happen in man to man...good players know when and when not to jump passing lanes. I agree about the rebounding..but nick c went to far with pretty much all the other category's besides maybe "raw rebounding".

Pastor wrote:

and stelas dont happen in man to man

LMAO!

So you've never seen a player strip another player of the ball one on one?

LMFAO!

How little basketball do you watch?

I watch more basketball than you..Id bet...but it does happen..but I dont think you can discount steals from bad passes because only the good players come up with those..it could easily be ball back to the offense if he hadnt came up with the steal